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#1
08-08-2006, 12:40 PM
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There is a huge difference between how Israel works and many of its neighbors. They are a democratic society. There are protests going on in Israel right now against the war. Arab Israelis are participating along with European and other Israelis. How many protests against Hezbollah in any Arab country?
I will bet I read and listen to more reports on this conflict than anyone on this board. It is very clear that Hezbollah has been and will continue to fire its rockets from areas that contain civilians. If you do not believe that, then the holocaust never occurred either. The evidence is overwhelming. For Gods sake people we have to wake up to the fact that we are working with two very different mindsets. Iranian president gets up in front of the ENTIRE ARAB LEAGUE AS SAYS ISRAEL SHOULD BE DESTROYED. After he spoke there was NOT ONE ARAB NATION THAT VOICED A DISSENT. Lets get real here. You have to know what you are dealing with in order to solve problems. 
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#2
08-08-2006, 03:12 PM
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Others will tell you that there are thousands of Arabs held prisoner by Israel, most uncharged, similar to Gitmo. Others will tell you of their impatience with the U.S. to succeed in Iraq at the cost of 40,000 Arab live in that country, notwithstanding our former support and arming of Saddam to fight the Iranians. Others will also tell you of their disdain for the U.N. as meaningless as the U.S. vetos any and all resolutions condemning Israel. (13-1 votes, there's hundreds of them). Most of all, others will tell you that much of the Arab world does indeed feel oppressed at the hands of Israel/U.S. as the result of the treatment of the Palestinians and the failure of Israel to lead the movement toward the two-state solution. In fact, 90% of the Arab world will tell you without the Gaza issue, there is no legitmizing cause for Islamic extremism. You're entitled to your opinion and I do not disagree with much of it. There are, however, far-differeing views held by other well-read and educated perople.
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#3
08-08-2006, 03:27 PM
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Christians who use violence in the name of God to destroy their enemies have no justification for their actions from Jesus Christ, his life and teachings as found in the New Testament. Whereas, Muslims who are engaged in violence and destruction of anyone who opposes Islam, have ample justification for their actions from the Qur'an and the life and sayings of prophet Muhammad.It is beyond doubt that the prophet of Islam did encourage the killing and intimidation of his enemies, not just in self defense as it is commonly reported by Muslims, but in the promotion of the cause of God and the spread of Islam. The actions of Muhammad were in direct contradiction to the teachings and actions of Jesus Christ and his disciples. Have Christians ever resorted to violence and other horrible atrocities. They have indeed committed many horrible acts, but when they have done this, they have betrayed the very person that they claim to follow. But when Muslims commit such acts, they can in fact claim that they are following the example of their prophet and thus fulfilling the will of God and promoting His cause. The religion is a violent one,and most of the World is in total denial about that.By saying they want to push all the Jews into the Sea,they aren't saying anything that Muhammad would be against.He killed people for being "non-believers" and they simply are following their prophet's teachings.These are intolerant people.Why?They have a totally intolerant religion.
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#4
08-08-2006, 08:44 PM
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Doesn't sound so tolerant, does it? And Jesus himself said he wasn't on earth to disavow the prophets, but to fulfill them. And they said some pretty harsh things-- including the killing disobedient children thing in the Old Testament. Mind you, I don't think any religious text is a good guide for foreign policy... but I don't think it's accurate to say Christians who kill non-Christians are violating their faith and only Islam is naturally intolerant. Christianity can be just as intolerant as any other Western faith and can be justified Biblically. It seems to me that intolerance is a characteristic not of one faith but of the fundamentalist branches of all faiths.
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#5
08-08-2006, 08:45 PM
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Kev, I'm with you on not knowing what to believe in the media anymore...
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#6
08-09-2006, 05:10 AM
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You have ignored the major point.The prophet of Islam(Mohammad) actually killed people who were nonbelievers in him.He told his followers to do the same,and that's why they hate to live with people of other religions(their own prophet told them to do away with nonbelievers.)You can blame all religions if it makes you feel better.You can find something violent in the Bible written by somebody other than the prophet that Christians base their salvation on.The fact is that Islam is the religion who's followers are presently killing others because they(OTHERS) don't believe in their prophet Mohammad.Moslems follow the words and actions of their prophet Mohammad(he himself killed nonbelievers,and encourages his followers to do the same,and that's what they are doing.)Christians follow the teachings of their prophet Jesus Christ(he killed nobody,and didn't encourage the slaughter of those that don't believe in him.)Please give me the name of a present day Christian group that encourages slaughtering people because they don't believe in Jesus Christ.I can give you many names of Moslem groups that encourage killing nonbelievers.We all saw that in Afghanistan,they wanted to kill one of their own Moslems who converted to Christianity. Christians and Jews kill others in self defense(this is what is going on now in Southern Lebanon.)Jews are targetting Moslems in Hezbollah.Why are Jews doing this?Is it because Moslems aren't of their religion? No,it is because this group of Moslems is shooting rockets at the people of Israel,and blows up buses in Israel.As far as Romans 1:31-32 goes,those are the words of an idiot called Paul.You can find a lot of people's words in the Bible,but you won't find Christ telling his followers to slaughter those who don't believe in him.You will,however,find that the prophet that Moslems follow,does encourage his followers to kill the nonbelievers.In fact he killed nonbelievers himself.A big difference.Those who don't want to see the difference will continue to be surprised at the violence used by Islamic groups.Read what their prophet said,and did.You will understand their violence better.
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#7
08-09-2006, 08:07 AM
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 My point is, you can't say "Christians who advocate violence aren't following their faith," because in fact, according to some interpretations, they are. And they would say that by limiting your intepretation to the four Gospels you yourself are not being Christian. Of course, I think you're in fine company; Thomas Jefferson's personal New Testament included every adage about living that Christ said, but he cut out every reference to Christ's divinity. (though I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Christ's reaffirming everything the prophets of the Old Testament said, which includes quite a bit about God's wrath on non-believers).The Koran, if I am not mistaken, also has adages against not killing innocents-- and I thought its main verse on violence said only in self-defense. So one can argue that Moslems who do violence are also violating Mohammed's teachings. And what about the Serbian/Albanian massacres of the 1990's? Wasn't that Christians killing Moslems? Any holy book is chock full of contradictions, because lots of different people went into creating each one (they've been arguing about Revelations' inclusion since they first compiled the Bible). I think before we start blindly pointing fingers at others' faiths, that perhaps we need to take a look at the world and ask ourselves why there seems to be such a rise in fundamentalist branches of all faiths, including American Christianity. Because I do believe fundamentalism breeds violence, regardless of the faith.
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#8
08-09-2006, 01:41 PM
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The point is that Christians don't often say "this is for Jesus Christ himself" when they kill people.It is more likely they are asking for his forgiveness when they do it.Croatia, Serbia,Russia etc. are three countries full of low educated nitwit thugs that think "their people" are better than others.These countries are mainly Roman Catholic,and even more so, Eastern Orthodox Catholics(lucky if they can read,and randomly reading the Bible word for word is not stressed in Catholicism...the Gospels,yes.)Most of these people don't even know why they are eating the cracker from the priest.They just know they are supposed to line up and do it. These people don't kill themselves and others to satisfy the prophet of their religion(JESUS CHRIST.)These are not religious fundamentalists.They are people who ignore their religion,and kill others mainly because they don't belong to their ethnic group.The Moslems who kill non-Moslems are not fallen away Moslems.They often do praise ALLAH while chopping heads off.Fact is that Christians ask for forgiveness from their maker(when they do evil acts against their religion,)and Moslems expect rewards in Heaven when they commit evil.Lets see how fundamentalists in each religion treat nonbelievers.Moslem ones are encouraged by Muhammad himself to kill nonbelievers.Muhammad is speaking about innocent "fellow Moslems" in the passage you wrote.He killed nonbelievers in him.Christian fundamentalists are apt to pass laws to force nonbelievers to stop having abortions,or stop drinking alcohol n' watching porn.Big difference.I don't like either of them,but there is a big difference between the 2 types of fundamentalists.One type wants to kill you,and the other simply wants to control your actions.Neither option is great,but which would you prefer?
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#9
08-09-2006, 02:23 PM
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It is often asked why Christ didn't bring up the violent stuff in the Old Testament,and say it was wrong.How long would he have been allowed to teach if he had done this? Fact is that he talked quite a bit,and didn't encourage believers to kill others for being nonbelievers(Muhammad did.)My brother is a "born againer." O.K.,and it has messed up my family's relationships quite a bit. I know way more than I want to about Fundamentalist Christianity.He thinks people are gunna go to hell,but he isn't gunna go out and kill people for not believing as he does.Oh,they believe in awful punishment for nonbelieving,but they believe it is up to the maker to dish it out.I can't stand to be around him,but I don't think killing nonbelievers is on his agenda anytime soon.
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