Chop Chop moves tack to SoCal

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Gander

I'm pretty sure he could do well at Yakima. Thats a very low blow to a guy who has given so much excitement to NY horse racing. Bad form. Good luck Choppy.

Are you kidding me? Have you actually watched this guy ride? " Given so much excitement to NY horse racing "?????? He has given a plentitude of horrific rides. Sorry if I don't consider that exciting.

I must be the odd man out as I just don't get all the misplaced loyalty to riders....especially poor ones. You like Chavez.....good for you. I think he is flat out horrendous and his every leg up is a disservice to the betting public.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Are you kidding me? Have you actually watched this guy ride? " Given so much excitement to NY horse racing "?????? He has given a plentitude of horrific rides. Sorry if I don't consider that exciting.

I must be the odd man out as I just don't get all the misplaced loyalty to riders....especially poor ones. You like Chavez.....good for you. I think he is flat out horrendous and his every leg up is a disservice to the betting public.

I haven't watched the guy ride a whole lot but from the little I saw, he doesn't look like a good rider at all. It is truly amazing that he did so well back there for a while. There is no way that guy could compete out here in California, yet he was the leading rider back there. The California jockey colony has always been much better than New York. It is finally starting to change. Now the two colonies are pretty comparable. I'd probably give the NY colony the edge right now especially with P Val on the sidelines.

At one time, we had an absolutely incredible jockey colony out here. Back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, we had Stevens, Pincay, McCarron, Delahoussaye, Valenzuela, etc. That was a great jockey colony.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I haven't watched the guy ride a whole lot but from the little I saw, he doesn't look like a good rider at all. It is truly amazing that he did so well back there for a while. There is no way that guy could compete out here in California, yet he was the leading rider back there. The California jockey colony has always been much better than New York. It is finally starting to change. Now the two colonies are pretty comparable. I'd probably give the NY colony the edge right now especially with P Val on the sidelines.
At one time, we had an absolutely incredible jockey colony out here. Back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, we had Stevens, Pincay, McCarron, Delahoussaye, Valenzuela, etc. That was a great jockey colony.

comparable? It isnt even close. Second rate NY riders like Gryder and Arroyo are front and center in So cal.

In So cal right now, its bug jockeys and bazes.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

comparable? It isnt even close. Second rate NY riders like Gryder and Arroyo are front and center in So cal.

In So cal right now, its bug jockeys and bazes.

Gryder and Arroyo are not front and center. Neither of them are even in the top 10 in the standings out Del Mar.

Desormeaux, on the other hand, who couldn't get arested in Southern California, is right up there in the top 5 at Saratoga.

You need to get your facts straight.

[Gander]

Gryder and Arroyo, front and center, LOL! That'll be the day. LOL!
If some people think Chavez is bad, watch these 2 guys.

[Gander]

As far as Kent D goes, I saw him minutes after he stiffed that Yankee horse on Sat, signing autographs playing kissy kissy with his little band of groupies. Could have cared less that he cost so many people so much money. Something stunk really bad in that race.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by Gander

As far as Kent D goes, I saw him minutes after he stiffed that Yankee horse on Sat, signing autographs playing kissy kissy with his little band of groupies. Could have cared less that he cost so many people so much money. Something stunk really bad in that race.

.........really, isnt that nice.......he was lucky i wasnt there. that was f%^king bulls^&t.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Gryder and Arroyo are not front and center. Neither of them are even in the top 10 in the standings out Del Mar. Desormeaux, on the other hand, who couldn't get arested in Southern California, is right up there in the top 5 at Saratoga.

You need to get your facts straight.

Okay, you need to learn how to read before you correct anyone else's "facts". Gryder is in the top ten LOL


This is the top ten in Del Mar right now:

Espinoza
Nakatani
Garcia
Solis
Michael Baze
John Court
David Cohen
tyler Baze
David Flores
Aaron Gryder

Now lets look at the top ten at Saratoga:

C. Velasquez
G Gomez
E Prado
J Castellano
J Velasquez
E Coa
K Desormeaux
J Leparoux
F Jara

Notables not making the top ten at Saratoga include:

Ramon Dominguez, Richard Migliore, Jose Santos, Shaun Bridgmahon, Mike Luzzi



How many hall of famers are in those names in So Cal? How many big rides have those guys had outside of Nakatani, Espinoza, Solis and Flores?

Now compare that to the guys in NY.

As far Desormeaux goes, his problems in So cal were more of a result of politics than his riding ability.

Look at it objectively and you will see that it isnt even close.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, you need to learn how to read before you correct anyone else's "facts". Gryder is in the top ten LOL


This is the top ten in Del Mar right now:

Espinoza
Nakatani
Garcia
Solis
Michael Baze
John Court
David Cohen
tyler Baze
David Flores
Aaron Gryder

Now lets look at the top ten at Saratoga:

C. Velasquez
G Gomez
E Prado
J Castellano
J Velasquez
E Coa
K Desormeaux
J Leparoux
F Jara

Notables not making the top ten at Saratoga include:

Ramon Dominguez, Richard Migliore, Jose Santos, Shaun Bridgmahon, Mike Luzzi



How many hall of famers are in those names in So Cal? How many big rides have those guys had outside of Nakatani, Espinoza, Solis and Flores?

Now compare that to the guys in NY.

As far Desormeaux goes, his problems in So cal were more of a result of politics than his riding ability.

Look at it objectively and you will see that it isnt even close.

I was looking at drf.com's from the Monday standings which was only updated through Friday. Desormeaux was in 3rd at the time. I knew that a couple of the guys behind him had won a few and passed him. That's why I said top 5. Even with the upated standings, Desormeaux is still doing better in New York than either of the other two guys are doing in California. What evidence do you have that Desormeaux's problems in Southern California were a result of politics? Are you in the business? Maybe you can enlighten me about the politics out here. I've only been in the business out here for over 20 years. It wasn't politics. There were just a lot of riders that were better than him.

[Rupert Pupkin]

There is no question that the Southern Cal jockey colony has taken a hit lately with Gomez and Rene Douglas both having left. In addition, P Val is sidelined indefinitely. But last year when we had Gomez, P Val, Espinoza, Douglas, Nakatani, etc. our colony was extremely strong. I think that Tyler Baze and David Flores could ride anywhere. I look for things to pick up for these guys again.

At this time last year, there were only two guys in New York who could have done well out here: Jerry Bailey and JV.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I was looking at drf.com's from the Monday standings which was only updated through Friday. Desormeaux was in 3rd at the time. I knew that a couple of the guys behind him had won a few and passed him. That's why I said top 5. Even with the upated standings, Desormeaux is still doing better in New York than either of the other two guys are doing in California. What evidence do you have that Desormeaux's problems in Southern California were a result of politics? Are you in the business? Maybe you can enlighten me about the politics out here. I've only been in the business out here for over 20 years. It wasn't politics. There were just a lot of riders that were better than him.

Okay, you know someone is grasping pretty hard when they have to flaunt their resume' to give credence to a weak argument.

If you want me to google every article ever written about why trainers weren't giving Kent mounts I could do that. Or you can just admit what every informed person knows: that kent had pissed off most of the top trainers and some of the owners and they were tired of giving him second chances.

As someone in the business you should know that Kent was notorious for not riding to instructions. He was notorious for a while for not riding out to the wire. He was notorious for not working hard in the mornings. He would refuse many mounts that he felt had little chance and he was not shy in telling people that their horses werent so good. Trainers, even the ones that liked him, were tired of dealing with him. Of course, you being a big timer in the business and all should know this. Do you want me to produce articles or will you just take my word for it?

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, you need to learn how to read before you correct anyone else's "facts". Gryder is in the top ten LOL

Look at the arrogance of this guy.

Wow. Gryder is in tenth place and Arroyo is in twelfth. I fail to see how that makes these guys front and center in SoCal. Especially with the field sizes.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Look at the arrogance of this guy.

Wow. Gryder is in tenth place and Arroyo is in twelfth. I fail to see how that makes these guys front and center in SoCal. Especially with the field sizes.

Okay, how about Michael Baze then? He wasnt even a third rate east coast jockey and he is also in the top ten in the west. Jon Court? he wasnt even in the top five in kentucky and he is in the top ten in So cal these days.

When i say "front and center" I mean they ride multiple mounts on a dailly basis. Gryder has 67 mounts so far in the del mar meet.

[Gander]

To say that Bailey and JV are the only two that could have done well out there is a ridiculous claim. They wanted Bejarano to come out for the longest time. Castellano would do extremely well. You dont think Prado would do well? Lets not be silly.

I agree totally. Castellano and Prado could ride anywhere and do well. Bejarano, I am not so convinced he is as great as everyone else thinks but he could surely hold his own in Southern California if guys like Baze, Cohen and Court can be in the top 10.