This has trouble written all over it

pick4 · #1 05-14-2008, 10:11 PM

The Eight Belles breakdown was horrible and NBC should spend a few moments addressing the issue. Even though breakdowns happen in racing and it is a part of racing finding the definitive answer to why they occur is impossible. They could blame the dirt surface but breakdowns happen on grass too. Look back at the last few Opening Day 1st races at the Spa.

Hopefully Dr. Bramledge and Larry Jones will articulate a sensible response to William Rhoden's uneducated rant about how horrible horse racing is.

Danzig · #2 05-14-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pick4

The Eight Belles breakdown was horrible and NBC should spend a few moments addressing the issue. Even though breakdowns happen in racing and it is a part of racing finding the definitive answer to why they occur is impossible. They could blame the dirt surface but breakdowns happen on grass too. Look back at the last few Opening Day 1st races at the Spa.

Hopefully Dr. Bramledge and Larry Jones will articulate a sensible response to William Rhoden's uneducated rant about how horrible horse racing is.

perhaps they could take a moment to remind everyone that his race has been run every year since it's inception in 1875 (133 runnings) with only one fatality ever in the field, eight belles.

hockey2315 · #3 05-15-2008, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

perhaps they could take a moment to remind everyone that his race has been run every year since it's inception in 1875 (133 runnings) with only one fatality ever in the field, eight belles.

But isn't that sort of the point? Horses are getting more fragile, drugs are corrupting the sport, etc. . .

zippyneedsawin · #4 05-15-2008, 04:49 AM

Why is William Rhoden's uninformed opinion part of this panel anyway? Just because he wrote a column?

Rupert Pupkin · #5 05-15-2008, 05:06 AM

Racing is broken and it needs to be fixed. As of right now, racing is dying a slow death. Tracks are closing down all over the country. Hollywood Park may be next. There are serious problems in racing and they need to be addressed.

The bettors and the fans are well aware of the problems. The problems are not going to go away until they are fixed. You can't just sweep them under the rug.

You guys have the whole thing backwards. You guys seem to think that if they just shut up about Eight Belles, then everything will be fine. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just the opposite. If we just shut up and don't make any changes, we will continue to see Eight Belles type incidents and racing will continue to go downhill.

Instead we should seize the moment, and use the Eight Belles incident as a wake-up call to finally start making some of the changes that need to be made.

Having discussions on television is a huge positive, not a negative.

zippyneedsawin · #6 05-15-2008, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Racing is broken and it needs to be fixed. As of right now, racing is dying a slow death. Tracks are closing down all over the country. Hollywood Park may be next. There are serious problems in racing and they need to be addressed.

The bettors and the fans are well aware of the problems. The problems are not going to go away until they are fixed. You can't just sweep them under the rug.

You guys have the whole thing backwards. You guys seem to think that if they just shut up about Eight Belles, then everything will be fine. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just the opposite. If we just shut up and don't make any changes, we will continue to see Eight Belles type incidents and racing will continue to go downhill.

Instead we should seize the moment, and use the Eight Belles incident as a wake-up call to finally start making some of the changes that need to be made.

Having discussions on television is a huge positive, not a negative.

You're missing the point, IMO. It's WHO is speaking, not that the discussions are going on. I can't speak for everyone else, but I welcome open discusions about horse racing, its issues and what can be done to make improvements. But when uninformed people get a forum to voice an opinion, it does no good.
NBC should have chosen someone more aware of horse racing issues for this panel than Mr. Rhoden. Who's going to take him seriously?

pgiaco · #7 05-15-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

You're missing the point, IMO. It's WHO is speaking, not that the discussions are going on. I can't speak for everyone else, but I welcome open discusions about horse racing, its issues and what can be done to make improvements. But when uninformed people get a forum to voice an opinion, it does no good.
NBC should have chosen someone more aware of horse racing issues for this panel than Mr. Rhoden. Who's going to take him seriously?

Exactly, informed discussion is one thing. Ranting without any knowledge of the subject doesn't do an ounce of good.

Danzig · #8 05-15-2008, 06:12 AM

i just don't understand why eight belles has now become the poster child for horse racing abuse. what about horses in barns with a trainer who cuts the leg off a dead horse? now maybe that guy should be investigated! if there are abuses, you find the ones doing so. if there are problems, fix them. but peta isn't interested in making the sport better, they're interested in not having the sport at all.

Kasept · #9 05-15-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

if there are problems, fix them. but peta isn't interested in making the sport better, they're interested in not having the sport at all.

Make NO mistake... Their agenda isn't the abolition of the sport.. Their agenda is SOLELY to use it as a flashpoint to raise money. They couldn't care less about the fate of horses. They don't really care about animals AT ALL. If they did, they would use their organization to help fund the care of abused and neglected animals... BUT THEY DON'T.

In fact, as I said the other day on the show, THEY ARE ROOTING FOR INJURIES TO HORSES TO FURTHER THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.. They are the depraved parties in this equation.

Danzig · #10 05-15-2008, 06:28 AM

yeah, you're probably right. a lot of these causes exist solely to make money for those in charge. if there are no more problems, there would be no more need for peta.

Rupert Pupkin · #11 05-15-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Make NO mistake... Their agenda isn't the abolition of the sport.. Their agenda is SOLELY to use it as a flashpoint to raise money. They couldn't care less about the fate of horses. They don't really care about animals AT ALL. If they did, they would use their organization to help fund the care of abused and neglected animals... BUT THEY DON'T.

In fact, as I said the other day on the show, THEY ARE ROOTING FOR INJURIES TO HORSES TO FURTHER THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS.. They are the depraved parties in this equation.

I know there are charities out there that don't care about their cause but simply are about lining the pockets of the heads of the charity.

I'm certainly not an expert on PETA and I don't agree with everything they say and do. But I think that lady who is the head of PETA, I believe her name is Ingrid Newkirk, is legitimately extremely concerned with the welfare of animals. If you have any evidence to the contrary, I would love to hear it.

I don't understand why you're so focused on PETA. I'm in the horseracing business and I don't care what PETA says about horseracing. Some of what PETA says is true and some of it is not true. Regardless of what PETA says, I know we have a lot of problems in horseracing that need to be fixed. I don't need PETA to tell me that. I see it first-hand every day.

I'm certainly not mad at PETA. I can't blame them for speaking up, even if some of their crticism is off-base. There certainly is some truth to some of the things they say. Even BTW said, "There is at least a hint of truth in some of what they say."

As I said, I have no anger towards PETA. My anger is at the people in the industry who are dragging their feet and doing everything they can to make sure that nothing changes with medication.

Rupert Pupkin · #12 05-15-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Who are you guys? And who is advocating just shutting up and forgetting? I haven't seen anyone here take the stance to just forget it. Almost across the board people here and other boards that I have seen are in agreement that things need to be done.

What I have seen is backlash to knee jerk reactions and a resentment of media types that speak negatively about the sport, yet have no idea about what they are talking about. I agree the discussion is positive and horse racing is being well represented. I'm just not sure if the right time is before the Preakness although I understand why they are doing it then.

The headline of this thread is "This Has Trouble Written All Over It". How could a discussion that involves Dr. Larry Bramlage, Larry Jones, Gary Stevens, and William Rhoden have trouble written all over it? I think it would be much more troubling if they didn't talk about Eight Belles or if they just briefly mentioned the incident. It's much better for them to spend plenty of time on the subject and talk about some of the things that can be done to lessen the chances of something like this happening again. I don't know anything about William Rhoden, but I certainly think that Bramlage, Jones, and Stevens are qualified to give their opinions.

Rupert Pupkin · #13 05-15-2008, 06:31 AM

I think you guys are making way too big of a deal about PETA. I don't think people make their decisions about whether something is cruel based on what PETA says. Millions of people saw that horse break down. I think people are going to make up their own minds about the incident and about whether horseracing is cruel or not. I don't think there are many people out there who saw the incident and thought one thing, but changed their minds when they heard PETA's opinion.

Danzig · #14 05-15-2008, 06:35 AM

you'd be surprised rupert. some people have to get their opinion from elsewhere, as it would be too much trouble to form their own after reasonable inquiry and debate.
plenty of lemmings who will use petas talking points to rail against this cruel sport, but they really don't know the sport, just that peta said it's 'bad'. oh, and please send money, join the fight...

Payson Dave · #15 05-15-2008, 06:50 AM

There is a saying to the effect of ... Be careful getting in to a war of words with someone with an endless supply of ink.
The guy from the Times has access to a huge audience and he does not necessarilly have the best interest of the game as his agenda.

Danzig · #16 05-15-2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

But isn't that sort of the point? Horses are getting more fragile, drugs are corrupting the sport, etc. . .

by the same token, vet care and testing is much better. you can always revisit the old days, and see it wasn't the 'good' old days. horses used to run hopped up on cocaine. a fracture back then was found when the horse broke down-no scans like what they've got today.

thing is, we bitch and moan about lack of racing over the span of a horses career, and them retiring at three before they get good. but go back and scan the old, really good horses' records. man o war ran 21 times, , but retired at three-just like secretariat and count fleet, who was sandwiched between the two eras. seattle slew, 17 races over three years-altho i can't imagine another tc winner running at four. it took four years for war admiral to rack up 26 starts, the most he ran in one year was 11-8 as a three year old, which is comparable to some of todays horses. assault averaged seven races per year....