Art Wilson: Cali perspective (with Shirreffs, Stute)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by kgar311

We'll see how much the trainers like the sythetic surface once it comes BC time and nobody shows up. Curlin isnt going near that crap. A big thanks to Santa Anita for making the best horse in the country or possibly the world go over seas for his final races. Cant wait to see those on tape delay.

If Zenyata handled Anita and OP,then Curlin should be able to do it,too. The really good horses are supposed to be able to run on anything. I think what you both are saying is that you don't like that turf horses can handle running on synthetic.So,guess what happens when you have a surface that allows traditional dirt and turf horses to compete together? Big competitive fields. Regardless of which horses like it,they can run more often on it than they can on dirt (ESPECIALLY THE DIRT WE HAD OUT HERE.)

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

If Zenyata handled Anita and OP,then Curlin should be able to do it,too. The really good horses are supposed to be able to run on anything. I think what you both are saying is that you don't like that turf horses can handle running on synthetic.So,guess what happens when you have a surface that allows traditional dirt and turf horses to compete together? Big competitive fields. Regardless of which horses like it,they can run more often on it than they can on dirt (ESPECIALLY THE DIRT WE HAD OUT HERE.)

Your right I kinda like my dirt horses to run on dirt and my turf to run on turf and not have grade 2 turf horses scaring off Curlin in the classic.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://www.nationalhbpa.com/NewsDisp...?STORYID=10350

..of the 92 trainers who submitted responses, 41 marked that they "strongly preferred" a synthetic surface, and 15 "preferred" a synthetic surface. There were 12 trainers who expressed "no preference," while seven responded that they "preferred" dirt and 17 "strongly preferred" dirt."

56 Socal trainers preferred synthetic, and 24 preferred dirt.Of those that have a preferrence, 7 out of 10 prefer the synthetic. Like I said, it's about 2 to 1 in favor.

[sumitas]

Some incredibly good posts scuds. Well backed up by your sources.
I recall a couple of years ago Shirrefs and Moss were against lowering the length of toe grabs. They won that battle in Cali despite the safety concerns over the length of toe grabs. Shireffs and Moss have an agenda and I don't see much safety in their stance.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I am starting to notice a definite trend with who likes/dislikes the synthetic in SOCAL. Mel Stute,Brian Koriner,Baffert, and Headley all work horses fast in the morning.Sometimes,Sherriffs does too. Most of the guys listed as supporting synthetic don't tend to work quickly in the morning. Mitchell,and O'NEILL, Mullins don't usually do that. Koriner has a horse in the 4th tonite that can't win a cheap maiden race, but he worked him in 58'3. Worked faster than 30 other horses (at the distance) that morning. Hasn't done that in other works. Stops at 5f in races. Would appear to have been asked for everything that morning. If he says he never had more horses with foot problems, and other trainers aren't having this problem,then you would think he might not let cheap horses run so fast that time of day. Look at the baby races Stute has horses in.They are working in 46 flat etc.,and can't run much in the afternoon at all. In both situations, they are asking slow horses to run as fast as they probably can.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Some incredibly good posts scuds. Well backed up by your sources.
I recall a couple of years ago Shirrefs and Moss were against lowering the length of toe grabs. They won that battle in Cali despite the safety concerns over the length of toe grabs. Shireffs and Moss have an agenda and I don't see much safety in their stance.

The CHRB actually reversed their decision and implemented the toe grab regulation. Whether or not they actually enforce it is beyond me.

As far as Shirreffs' lament with the young horses, I wouldn't anticipate synthetic surfaces to lead to a reduction in stress-related injuries to unraced horses. Those horse's bones still have to adapt to training in a restrictive manner and are thus still susceptable to the same stress injuries (eg shoulder, shin fractures, etc.) all racehorses go through in the early part of their careers, regardless of surface. If anything, you might see an increase in those types of injuries (as Shirreffs suggests) because horsemen might figure that unraced (ie uninjured) horses can be trained harder on synthetics than on conventional dirt.