What people are forgetting about Flower Alley

[whorstman]

Same here, He seemed to be right w/ the pace most of the race and just got tired. He needs to be more fit. Sun King ran a very impressive race, Invasor was lucky to hang on.

[sumitas]

Yup, he was right there at the top of the stretch. It takes a lot longer to get in top shape than most people realize, that's for sure. It doesn't happen in a month or 2. It takes a while. The competition is fierce and the horses are great athletes.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Yup, he was right there at the top of the stretch. It takes a lot longer to get in top shape than most people realize, that's for sure. It doesn't happen in a month or 2. It takes a while. The competition is fierce and the horses are great athletes.

Sumitas,
There is so much truth in what you say.
It's just so easy to get down on a trainer.
Most folks don't know what goes into it. It's waves, not straight lines.
First is the diet. You kind of "starve" them...not really, but hay and a little grain. Short easy works to start building muscle. Then, as the appetite develops, stronger works at a variety of distances, hotter feeds. By the time the race comes up, you just hope that everything you've put into prepping for that race comes true. It's diet and excercise...hoping that when the horse reaches "peak" it's at exactly the right time.
So much can go wrong along the way. The horse can sustain an injury (sometimes difficult to detect), or some kind soul can show up with a ton of carrots and mints to disrupt the feeding program. We've all seen horses get hurt in a morning breeze. Wind sprints and gate works??? Lots!
In a "nut shell", good trainers have the savy from so many previous lessons that when the target race comes along, the horse is a "monster", totally pumped and sound...at the top of the "peak" (wave).
Even then, a stupid ride can happen, or a bad step...and all the effort that's been invested is gone like a discarded ticket on the floor.
It's a tough game. Not just for the horses but also for everyone that tries everyday to make it happen.
If it was easy, I don't think many people would even try.
Nor would the horses.

Just my two pennies worth.

DTS

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Sumitas,
There is so much truth in what you say.
It's just so easy to get down on a trainer.
Most folks don't know what goes into it. It's waves, not straight lines.
First is the diet. You kind of "starve" them...not really, but hay and a little grain. Short easy works to start building muscle. Then, as the appetite develops, stronger works at a variety of distances, hotter feeds. By the time the race comes up, you just hope that everything you've put into prepping for that race comes true. It's diet and excercise...hoping that when the horse reaches "peak" it's at exactly the right time.
So much can go wrong along the way. The horse can sustain an injury (sometimes difficult to detect), or some kind soul can show up with a ton of carrots and mints to disrupt the feeding program. We've all seen horses get hurt in a morning breeze. Wind sprints and gate works??? Lots!
In a "nut shell", good trainers have the savy from so many previous lessons that when the target race comes along, the horse is a "monster", totally pumped and sound...at the top of the "peak" (wave).
Even then, a stupid ride can happen, or a bad step...and all the effort that's been invested is gone like a discarded ticket on the floor.
It's a tough game. Not just for the horses but also for everyone that tries everyday to make it happen.
If it was easy, I don't think many people would even try.
Nor would the horses.

Just my two pennies worth.

DTS

Very informative. Learn something new. thanks.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Balletto

Very informative. Learn something new. thanks.

Balleto,
Good to see you here.
Sumitas is a breeder, as am I. I'm also an owner.
Just to say, without a good trainer to make the pedigree a reality, it's also wasted effort.
Have you ever come across a horse or two that had a very modest pedigree that became a monster on the track? I can think of a few.
At the sales, seems to me that people spend very big bucks on pedigrees but leave out one of the most important aspects...the training it takes to make the blood prove its potential.
DTS

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Balleto,
Good to see you here.
Sumitas is a breeder, as am I. I'm also an owner.
Just to say, without a good trainer to make the pedigree a reality, it's also wasted effort.
Have you ever come across a horse or two that had a very modest pedigree that became a monster on the track? I can think of a few.
At the sales, seems to me that people spend very big bucks on pedigrees but leave out one of the most important aspects...the training it takes to make the blood prove its potential.
DTS

I'll be the first to admit I think pedigree is only part of the equasion. You have mechanics, environment, and of course training among other things. Not down-playing any of that. Im just more well-versed from the breeding/pedigree angle. Go figure.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Balleto,
Good to see you here.
Sumitas is a breeder, as am I. I'm also an owner.
Just to say, without a good trainer to make the pedigree a reality, it's also wasted effort.
Have you ever come across a horse or two that had a very modest pedigree that became a monster on the track? I can think of a few.
At the sales, seems to me that people spend very big bucks on pedigrees but leave out one of the most important aspects...the training it takes to make the blood prove its potential.
DTS

That's why I love hitting the auctions, DTS.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

That's why I love hitting the auctions, DTS.

Slot,
Are you a pin hooker?

Originally Posted by whorstman

Same here, He seemed to be right w/ the pace most of the race and just got tired. He needs to be more fit. Sun King ran a very impressive race, Invasor was lucky to hang on.

Sun King has a problem winning races. That is 3 seconds in a row. Invasor knows how to win. That is 8 wins in 9 tries. Three grade 1 wins consecutively.

Hoist.. you bring up some good points. Maybe as fan we're jaded. Either way, my gutt says somethings amiss. I guess we'll find out and I truly hope you're right and im wrong.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Sun King has a problem winning races. That is 3 seconds in a row. Invasor knows how to win. That is 8 wins in 9 tries. Three grade 1 wins consecutively.

He's another 2nd away from being a confirmed hanger.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

He's another 2nd away from being a confirmed hanger.

from the drf. I agree.

"Ah, Sun King. You never disappoint. You're the greatest tease in the thoroughbred game. You never do anything wrong per se. You're not a tail swisher, or an ill-behaved buffoon, but you just can't find that extra oomph to win the big ones. It’s a combination of the Perfect Drift ‘hang’ mentality with the fact that you’re facing good horses. After all, Invasor and Silver Train are quality Grade 1 winners.

You sat a good trip in the Whitney despite the outside post. Sure, you swung six wide turning for home, but you had every chance to pass them all in the lane. And you almost did just that. Every handicapper has one, or two, or three thousand horses that they are “married” to. I’m not going to divorce Sun King, but the sun is setting on his career, and the competition should only get tougher. That elusive Grade 1 victory may remain just out of his reach."

[slotdirt]

I don't think it's fair to say the sun is setting on Sun King's career. I mean, he's only four, and he certainly hasn't been unsound, has he?

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I don't think it's fair to say the sun is setting on Sun King's career. I mean, he's only four, and he certainly hasn't been unsound, has he?

I dont believe he has. I'll tell you what, if you ever doubt the quality of female family and its importance in a runner, look no further than Sun King's dam. She's quickly proving herself a stellar producer. Besides Sun King she's the dam of multiple G3 winner Ocean Drive, G1 winner Traitor, and is the granddam of G1 winner Peeping Tom, G2 winner AllamericanBertie, and G2 winner Hurricane Bertie.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I dont believe he has. I'll tell you what, if you ever doubt the quality of female family and its importance in a runner, look no further than Sun King's dam. She's quickly proving herself a stellar producer. Besides Sun King she's the dam of multiple G3 winner Ocean Drive, G1 winner Traitor, and is the granddam of G1 winner Peeping Tom, G2 winner AllamericanBertie, and G2 winner Hurricane Bertie.

Peeping Tom...coming to a Penn National Gaming track near you!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

He's another 2nd away from being a confirmed hanger.

Don't think you can consider him a hanger off of this performance, he was in front after the wire. He was MOVIN at the end, that isn't hanging in my opinion, I also think Invasor was dead tired at the end, Invasor has some SERIOUS fight in him, and lets keep in mind that while considered a 4 year old, he is a three old really. Southern Hemisphere breeding are a 'year' ahead, when they are really not, if they makes any sense

I am wondering how long until Candy Stripes starts coming to the states, if he hasn't already, there has been a ton of good strong gritty horses that have come to the US from him...

[randallscott35]

But Scavs, its the totality of his career, not one race. He doesn't seem to want to go by. No, he's not facing tin cans, that's true, but sometimes a spade is a spade.

[Scav]

Alright, I can see that point

Invasor is officially 4 years old. he was born August 3rd 2002

I know the January 1st rule, but still he has to still be developing, amazing horse

[EpBurns]

Can you say Cat thief, I am a firm believer that Sun King will be the best value in the Classic and win it!

Originally Posted by Scav

Alright, I can see that point

Invasor is officially 4 years old. he was born August 3rd 2002

I know the January 1st rule, but still he has to still be developing, amazing horse

Southern Hemisphere horses turn on August 1. Northern Hemisphere horses on January 1. His birthdate really doesn't mean anything except that he was born after August 1.

He is an excellent horse. He knows how to win.