Eight Belles & Proud Spell

[Thunder Gulch]

I'd bet one goes to the Oaks and the other to the Derby.

[HaloWishingwell]

Regardless what the final decision is, they will still take up two spots at the draw.

[blackthroatedwind]

This is actually a very good thing overall as it will force Churchill to finally change the Derby entry rules. They will either have to start allowing also-eligibles and/or alter the way earnings are calculated and used for eligibility.

Hopefully they will do both.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is actually a very good thing overall as it will force Churchill to finally change the Derby entry rules. They will either have to start allowing also-eligibles and/or alter the way earnings are calculated and used for eligibility.

Hopefully they will do both.

I've never understood why they didn't allow a/e's..or at least have a "waiting list" , both still graded earnings based. Was there a reason?

[HaloWishingwell]

If they allowed also eligibles and the scratches occur after the draw, would the also eligible then take the outer post or just replace the scratched horse post?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell

If they allowed also eligibles and the scratches occur after the draw, would the also eligible then take the outer post or just replace the scratched horse post?

Maybe if you are double entered, you don't get the opportunity to take part in the respective post draw, but have to take what is left?

[Cannon Shell]

Or change the conditions of the Derby to not allow horses to be entered if they are already entered in another race.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or change the conditions of the Derby to not allow horses to be entered if they are already entered in another race.

We are slowly working towards common sense solutions which means it will never happen

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or change the conditions of the Derby to not allow horses to be entered if they are already entered in another race.

Yeah, that seems a no brainer. Once this precendent is set won't every trainer with a top contender enter a filly with earnings and then scratch just to reduce the size of the field?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Or change the conditions of the Derby to not allow horses to be entered if they are already entered in another race.

They don't have to do that Chuck. They just have to allow for also-eligibles which covers many possibilities.

[-BT-]

i hope they draw hole #1 and #20

then we'd widdle the field down to 18

-bt-

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I've never understood why they didn't allow a/e's..or at least have a "waiting list" , both still graded earnings based. Was there a reason?

I assume one major problem is it screws with their " Derby Draw " though there is a simple solution to that.....the AEs are automatically assigned posts 21-24. I imagine that connections would rather accept the lousy post than be excluded.

I'm sure they also have concerns about refunds, which in all fairness is a novice-fan protection, but the solution to that is to make scratch time for the Derby Friday morning before Derby wagering begins. I would imagine the connections of fillies that have cross entered in the Oaks would know by then which race they are running in.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is actually a very good thing overall as it will force Churchill to finally change the Derby entry rules. They will either have to start allowing also-eligibles and/or alter the way earnings are calculated and used for eligibility.

Hopefully they will do both.

Which will happen first: New Derby entry process, or the ability to bet on more than 23 individual horses in the future wager?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by justindew

Which will happen first: New Derby entry process, or the ability to bet on more than 23 individual horses in the future wager?

I think they could both well happen next year. The pools for the Derby futures were very weak......if that doesn't get their attention then nothing will.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is actually a very good thing overall as it will force Churchill to finally change the Derby entry rules. They will either have to start allowing also-eligibles and/or alter the way earnings are calculated and used for eligibility.

Hopefully they will do both.

Agree on both points.

I have no problem with either of them trying the Derby, especially in this comical year, but I'd love to have seen a "test run" against the boys a la Winning Colors to have earned the graded money to run.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Agree on both points.

I have no problem with either of them trying the Derby, especially in this comical year, but I'd love to have seen a "test run" against the boys a la Winning Colors to have earned the graded money to run.

You should be repremanded for mentioning WC in the same thought as these 2, even in a year like this.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You should be repremanded for mentioning WC in the same thought as these 2, even in a year like this.

HA!
Not a comparison of talent but rather she EARNED her way into the Derby by destroying the SA Derby, not by racking up $$ in the Fantasy, etc.


Why Moonlight out today?

[cakes44]

I like Eight Belles chances. Kushy trips going 1 1/16(at most) vs females and being a being a daughter of Unbridled's Song are things I definitely look for in a Derby winner.

[Linny]

The post draw for the Derby is a joke. People play games, taking the spot at the outside of the main gate in the inside of the extra gate to get more room etc. Then a scratch occurs and they are shift anyhow. A random draw works for every other race, why not the Derby? From there, add AE's in graded earnings order. If scratches occur, the AE's are automatically outside. Remember, those outside posts have yielded plenty of on the board finishes and a few wins in the last decade.

The idea makes some sense esp as in this era, it's possible for a huge barn 9owner or trainer) to "stuff the entry box" then scratch all the "deadwood" leaving their best horse to run against 14 rivals rather than 19. Think Zayat. They could enter every one of their qualifiers then scratch all but say Z Fortune. This approach could be an effective way to get a shot field for a very strong frontrunner for example.

[pb72vett]

sorry but eight no in the money here my friend. better chance with there own.