![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
but yes kudos to multiple gr1 winner Street Sense for gallantly holding off the first level allowance winner Grasshopper at Saratoga. It was his last victory. Street Sense never beat older horses, but Curlin has done so 4 straight times including the breeders cup and DWC. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
also, keep in mind that curlin was not the only one to defeat older, hard spun and any given saturday did as well. i think it was a level crop, with curlin only getting a nod now because he is still racing. of course you can only speculate on how good the others would be-but i don't think you can knock them back a few pegs on how they did last year, due to the fact they aren't racing this year. the breeders cup had the same hard spun, street sense, etc that curlin faced all year. the older horses were laughable last year. i think curlin is a good horse who is being elevated by many due to having the best of circumstances more so than the best of talent.
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
Second point I would like to address, is yes Curlin is still racing. But it is not without risk of tarnishing his reputation. Horses that prematurely retire avoid the risk of exposure. We won't know this about the others, but Street Sense rode a 2 horse losing streak into retirement, Rags to Riches lost in the Gazelle before retiring. Though it can be argued that these horses had already peaked or caught favorable scenarios or not. One thing cannot be argued is Curlin continued to ascend in his performances. Aren't traits in consistency and durabilty in a racehorse a sign of superiority? Finally we can nitpick over individual races at nauseum, however certain races carry more weight and whether we like it or not, The Breeders Cup Classic is the defining moment when comparing these horses. All of the horses had long campaigns, I'm sure if Street Sense had won the race we would not be arguing who was the best 3 yr old of 2007? Wouldn't we? But the fact is none of the others were in the same league of Curlin that day, objectively to ignore that, I believe one is not truly examining all the factors at work here nor are they are accurately weighing them. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
also, the breeders cup is a defining moment, but i would disagree that it is THE defining moment. i would also take a moment to remind everyone that street sense was a top horse two years running, and now curlin has the chance to show the same thing. also a reminder that street sense did something no horse had done before, in winning the bcj and the derby. i would disagree that no horse was in the same league as curlin, with the second place finisher in the derby also the second place finisher in the bcc. discussing weaknesses in a horses rivals does not make a horse look better. case in point- you mention rags' loss in the gazelle- that being the same rags who beat curlin at belmont. i would say that every horse showed some tenacity, and every horse also showed moments of weakness. i am taking nothing away from curlin by saying he was better-but not head and shoulders better.
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
for me Curlin earned all the credit starting late in the year, and campaining in every TC race remarkably well, historically well. then when he came back in the fall he took it up another notch. the progression was evident in the head to head match ups Kentucky Derby, Street Sense took advantage of a miraculous rail trip while Curlin had a more troubled trip and experienced the big race for the first time checks in a well beaten third. Preakness, Curlin already exposes Street Sense by running him down to win. there was absolutely no way he should have been able to do that if Street Sense was the more talented horse. Street Sense had the jump on Curlin and should have been home free. The Classic, Curlin runs by Street Sense like he was standing still. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
as for the classic, hard spun ran second (again, followed by the monster awesome gem, and then street sense. the derby, street sense, hard spun and then curlin. same group all year, battling each other all year. how that makes one head and shoulders better than the others, i don't know. i NEVER said street sense was more talented. i think he was equally talented, and showed precocity at two, and then kept his form thru august of last year. now that's something that has been sadly lacking lately in tc runners. hard spun ran hard all year, and curlin as well. but they all took turns beating each other throughout the year. curlin may have had a stronger ending, but you can't use that to negate the beginning of the year.
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
I will give you the BC but you have a hard time convincing me that the Preakness proved Curlin was "head and shoulders" better than the other three year olds. |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
Name me one Assmussen runner that went on to be a top notch sire. I can think of at least one Nafzger runner that went on to great things as a sire, Unbridled. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
Hard Spun, under the right conditions might have been able to. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
|
#14
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
![]() i don't know how you can make the case that street sense wouldn't have been able to give curlin a run for his money at four. street sense won throughout the year last year, but then ran his worst race in the swamp at monmouth. how does that correlate to him not giving curlin a run this year? would all their matchups be in a quagmire?
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
Not saying Curlin would be a $5k claimer in another barn but I can't dignify his efforts when he is managed by a cheater like Steve A. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
![]() Quote:
|
#20
|
||||
|
||||
![]() Quote:
|