Is Haskin joking?

[slotdirt]

The funny part is someone just corrected him - yesterday, I think - on how Sharp Humor actually raced after the Derby, thus not ending his career.

[Cannon Shell]

Was Curlin heads and shoulders above the rest of his three year old crop? He ran 3rd in the Derby, won the Preakness by a head, got beat by a filly in the Belmont, lost in the Haskell, won a subpar GC Gold Cup by a nose and then won the BC Classic impressively. He may have been the best 3 yo but he was hardly a standout as he ran in 4 grade 1's for 3yo's and won 1 of them.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

He was clearly the overall standout, even going into the Breeders Cup Classic where he went off at 4.4/1 odds - yes - no question.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Was Curlin heads and shoulders above the rest of his three year old crop? He ran 3rd in the Derby, won the Preakness by a head, got beat by a filly in the Belmont, lost in the Haskell, won a subpar GC Gold Cup by a nose and then won the BC Classic impressively. He may have been the best 3 yo but he was hardly a standout as he ran in 4 grade 1's for 3yo's and won 1 of them.

I can see your point, but in my opinion he is head and shoulders the best horse of the crop based on what he did in the BC Classic. He certainly is the most talented horse of the class while Rags, Street S and AGS have all been retired. He's shown his versatilty by being able to handle most tracks and his durabilty by still racing today.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I can see your point, but in my opinion he is head and shoulders the best horse of the crop based on what he did in the BC Classic. He certainly is the most talented horse of the class while Rags, Street S and AGS have all been retired. He's shown his versatilty by being able to handle most tracks and his durabilty by still racing today.

He may have been heads and shoulders above the crop at the end of the year but he still lost a whole lot of races to other 3 year olds to be considered vastly superior. It is easy to say this after he has continued to race effectively at 4 while the other 3 year olds are no longer here. But winning and winning decisively against other 3 year olds would be a benchmark for me to consider him head and shoulders above the other three year olds and in the four biggest 3 year old races he ran in he lost 3 of them and the one win was by a nose.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

I can see your point, but in my opinion he is head and shoulders the best horse of the crop based on what he did in the BC Classic. He certainly is the most talented horse of the class while Rags, Street S and AGS have all been retired. He's shown his versatilty by being able to handle most tracks and his durabilty by still racing today.

i disagree. he beat hard spun in the fall by about the same margin as street sense in the spring-the same street sense who finished behind hard spun more than once. they all took turns beating each other (don't forget hard spun was ahead of curlin in the derby) and beating a woefully inadequate group of older horses in the classic.
the only reason anyone would call curlin head and shoulders above the rest is that he remains in training, for the moment.
i'd call last years crop better than average, as there were several who ran top races-but i'd also say they were all pretty even talent-wise. no absolute stand out from last year imo.
also, don't forget this is curlins second year racing, he didn't race at two like some of his peers. also might have to give the nod to street sense really as far as overall talent, as he was the champ at two, and then won the derby.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Was Curlin heads and shoulders above the rest of his three year old crop? He ran 3rd in the Derby, won the Preakness by a head, got beat by a filly in the Belmont, lost in the Haskell, won a subpar GC Gold Cup by a nose and then won the BC Classic impressively. He may have been the best 3 yo but he was hardly a standout as he ran in 4 grade 1's for 3yo's and won 1 of them.

I disagree, by the end of the year he was decisively better than the other 3 yo's. His last three races to me clearly show Curlin as the standout of his class. Street Sense and Hard Spun plateaued, Curlin kept raising his game.
you say the Gold Cup was subpar, but he did beat the best older horse going at the time and the rest of the field was left in the dust and that performance earned him a figure better than anything Hard Spun or Street Sense earned all year. His Classic win said it all really.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I disagree, by the end of the year he was decisively better than the other 3 yo's. His last three races to me clearly show Curlin as the standout of his class. Street Sense and Hard Spun plateaued, Curlin kept raising his game.
you say the Gold Cup was subpar, but he did beat the best older horse going at the time and the rest of the field was left in the dust and that performance earned him a figure better than anything Hard Spun or Street Sense earned all year. His Classic win said it all really.

His haskell loss showed you he was clearly what? The fact remains that he lost 3 of 4 races against 3 yo's in grade 1 races. Did you consider Sunday Silence head and shoulders better than Easy Goer? Probably not and he beat him 3 out of 4. He was a head bob away from being 0 for 4 in the big 3 year old races. The rest of the year counts too. He was clearly the best 3 year old in November and December.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

His haskell loss showed you he was clearly what? The fact remains that he lost 3 of 4 races against 3 yo's in grade 1 races. Did you consider Sunday Silence head and shoulders better than Easy Goer? Probably not and he beat him 3 out of 4. He was a head bob away from being 0 for 4 in the big 3 year old races. The rest of the year counts too. He was clearly the best 3 year old in November and December.

he came back a different horse more mature, whatever, in the JCGC, and consistently performed at that higher level four consecutive times now.
to me there is no doubt who the best horse to come out of 07 was. Curlin is a standout. It was unclear during the TC season, but it didn't end up that way.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

It was unclear during the TC season, but it didn't end up that way.

Without being a smart ass this time - I don't think it was unclear at all.

Hard Spun wasn't that much horse when he didn't make the lead - and when he didn't make the lead and raced wide over a live rail - he wasn't good enough to even hit the board in the Southwest Stakes.

Street Sense - I know I supposedly have a huge bias against him and all - but all of his good races came with the same illogically good trip.

Rags To Riches had a great route pedigree and a slow paced 12 furlong race was what she was tailor made for.

Curlin didn't always win when things didn't go his way - but he didn't need things to go his way to run big.

How many 3yo champions go through a season undefeated?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Without being a smart ass this time - I don't think it was unclear at all.

Hard Spun wasn't that much horse when he didn't make the lead - and when he didn't make the lead and raced wide over a live rail - he wasn't good enough to even hit the board in the Southwest Stakes.

Street Sense - I know I supposedly have a huge bias against him and all - but all of his good races came with the same illogically good trip.

Rags To Riches had a great route pedigree and a slow paced 12 furlong race was what she was tailor made for.

Curlin didn't always win when things didn't go his way - but he didn't need things to go his way to run big.

How many 3yo champions go through a season undefeated?

look, I feel Curlin is head and shoulders the best of the group.
its just for me I only became totally sure of that later in the year. If you were sure about it early on, good for you because you were right.

i agree with your assessment on him 100%, he was the only one that could win a race that wasn't handed to him.

I think you and I were among the very few on here last year that could see through the Street Sense mystique. why he went off as the favorite in the classic is a mystery to me, off of his loss to Hard Spun and his titanic struggle with Grasshopper.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How many 3yo champions go through a season undefeated?

No one said he wasnt the best horse in the end but he was far from undefeated, especially against the three year olds. He lost the derby, he lost the belmont, he won the Preakness by a nose, he lost the haskell. That is NOT heads and shoulders above anybody. Did he wind up as the best horse? Yes. But to say he was heads and shoulders above the other three year olds is hindsight. He ran in six 3 yo stakes i believe and lost half of them. The win over Lawyer Ron was nice but Lawyer Ron was beaten badly by the other three year olds next out so he is a poor measuring stick. He was very good in the BC and i guess these days thats all that counts. He would be heads and shoulders against this group this year.