Dennis of cork, albarado off??

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

And to make it clear... Anyone who thinks that Carroll wouldn't know how to bring a horse into the Triple Crown the right way is unenlightened. He was there every step of the way galloping Easy Goer.

I have no knocks on Carroll at all - but I think you are really overplaying this 'he galloped Easy Goer' thing a lot.

In my always humble opinion, the fact that he got up on Easy Goer (who lost the Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/2) doesn't really mean that much to me when we are talking about Denis Of Cork.

I believe whoever is calling the shots with DoC is doing a masterful job.

A FG Alw race, followed by a Graded stake that features Turf War and the returning Riley Tucker as the two favorites, followed by the Ill Derby is taking the path of least resistance into the Derby.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I have no knocks on Carroll at all - but I think you are really overplaying this 'he galloped Easy Goer' thing a lot.

In my always humble opinion, the fact that he got up on Easy Goer (who lost the Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the Breeders Cup Classic at 1/2) doesn't really mean that much to me when we are talking about Denis Of Cork..

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

And I'm not overplaying a trainer's preparedness to hone a horse THAT HE RIDES when it comes to having one right for a specific race or set of races.. You're out of your element on this particular topic.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

Easy Goer was about as much horse as I have ever seen.

But what he has to do with Denis Of Cork's chances in the Derby I simply don't know.

Originally Posted by Kasept

And I'm not overplaying a trainer's preparedness to hone a horse THAT HE RIDES when it comes to having one right for a specific race or set of races.. You're out of your element on this particular topic.

I laughed.

Hmm. I've got an idea.

Maybe an Easy Goer replica good luck miniature (kinda like the good luck trolls but a horse) would be the latest craze? Numerous miniatures to choose from with a wide array of neon manes . Also for hardcore Easy Goer good luck miniature fans a limited edition David Carroll - Exercise Rider miniature and a saddle.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You don't really want to argue the merits of Easy Goer with me. I don't really wish to get into a savaging of Day and incriminations of Whittingham in public. Hopefully it will suffice to say that there are enough people out there whose opinions you respect that know the score on this topic that ensure the scale always comes out on Easy Goer's side.

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it.
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Easy Goer was about as much horse as I have ever seen.

But what he has to do with Denis Of Cork's chances in the Derby I simply don't know.

I laughed.

The comments in question had only to do with the impuning of Easy Goer's preparedness for the Spring Classics, which had been my original point of reference. He has to do with Carroll prepping DoC for the TC season by way of having been through the TC with a top horse.. something many other trainers have not..


.. and I'm glad your sense of humor is intact.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Oh, let's go ahead and get into it.
Easy Goer was one hell of a horse. There is no question about it.
That being said, the better horse won three out of four in that series. Not even nearly twenty years of New York-biased whining coupled with accusations of questionable merit can change that fact.

Frozen blood samples would have come in handy at some point over these 20 years..

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The comments in question had only to do with the impuning of Easy Goer's preparedness for the Spring Classics, which had been my original point of reference. He has to do with Carroll prepping DoC for the TC season by way of having been through the TC with a top horse.. something many other trainers have not..

Ok, but Easy Goer is not the greatest example of a horse who was so well 'primed' to peak on the big day.

He lost the BC Juvenile at 1/5, lost the Ky Derby at 4/5, lost the Preakness at 3/5, and lost the BC Classic at 1/2.

I know the two CD losses can be explained away based on track condition, and the Preakness and BC Classic losses can be explained away by Easy Goer's lack of professionalism. Sure you can blame Day for a pair of poor looking rides in those two races, but it was the horse who ducked in at the gap in the Classic, and it was the horse who ran in spots, raced erratic, and appeared to lose focus in those races.

Easy Goer was such an overwhelming favorite in those races simply because he was so awesome in all of his other races. He actually ran excellent in defeat in two of the three SS losses as well.

Let me say again - I don't view DoC being trained by Carroll as a negative in any way.

I think "having the experience of having been through the triple crown with a top horse" is a bit overrated anyway. And in Carroll's case, I guess it came 19 years ago and as an excersize rider.

Wasn't Jan Rushton an excersize rider for Shug?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Frozen blood samples would have come in handy at some point over these 20 years..

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.

Of course, he was stabled for the most part at Belmont, so maybe those X-File guys were spraying the barn area even back then.

Mr. Wilhelm?

My name is Tina...

You chose HIM over ME?!

[Bystander]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.

Of course, he was stabled for the most part at Belmont, so maybe those X-File guys were spraying the barn area even back then.

Mr. Wilhelm?

My name is Tina...

You chose HIM over ME?!

Your Seinfeld-savant skills are truly wasted here, Mr. Tomasi.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bystander

Your Seinfeld-savant skills are truly wasted here, Mr. Tomasi.

I'll work nights?

I'm sorry...we have to let you go.

But I don't even really work here!

That's what makes this so difficult...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Where is this "doped" Sunday Silence angle coming from?

It's certainly interesting, because it was Easy Goer that dropped dead of cancer at the tender age of 9.

While I strenuously disagree with the notion that the so-called "evidence" in this matter has ANY validity whatsoever, I assure you that Steve isn't just making this up on the spot. Nor he is in any way alone in making this argument.
For nearly two decades the conspiracy-theorists (who curiously all seem to hail from one state) have been arguing that the Belmont Stakes was the only meeting between these two horses in which Harthill couldn't administer some nefarious substance to Sunday Silence. Basically the argument goes that Whittingham was a despicable cheater who was prevented from cheating in this one race by the tremendous barn-security that exists - apparently - "only in New York."
I don't buy it.....but there are plenty of people who do.
I assume they probably also have some explanation/excuse for why Sunday Silence outperformed Easy Goer in the shed, but it too probably doesn't involve saying the words, "Sunday Silence was simply better."

[Bystander]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I'll work nights?

I'm sorry...we have to let you go.

But I don't even really work here!

That's what makes this so difficult...

Your fly's open.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I assume they probably also have some explanation/excuse for why Sunday Silence outperformed Easy Goer in the shed, but it too probably doesn't involve saying the words, "Sunday Silence was simply better."

I don't think that proved much of anything about who was the better horse.

SS sired many excellent turf horses...but him being such a great turf sire shouldn't have come as a big shock, as his sire Halo was a Grade 1 winner on turf and his dam Wishing Well moved way up on turf and went from a claimer to a multiple Graded Stakes winner.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't think that proved much of anything about who was the better horse.
SS sired many excellent turf horses...but him being such a great turf sire shouldn't have come as a big shock, as his sire Halo was a Grade 1 winner on turf and his dam Wishing Well moved way up on turf and went from a claimer to a multiple Graded Stakes winner.

Of course not. I never suggested that it did.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bystander

Your fly's open.

By the end, he was left with nothing but a deformed claw...and had to rely on Cub Scouts to feed him...

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Bystander

Your Seinfeld-savant skills are truly wasted here, Mr. Tomasi.

he'll have to do better than that I'm afraid.

Wilhelm says "my name is Tonya", not "Tina"

its as if you have no business skills whatsoever.

well I'm just trying to get ahead.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by miraja2

While I strenuously disagree with the notion that the so-called "evidence" in this matter has ANY validity whatsoever, I assure you that Steve isn't just making this up on the spot. Nor he is in any way alone in making this argument.
For nearly two decades the conspiracy-theorists (who curiously all seem to hail from one state) have been arguing that the Belmont Stakes was the only meeting between these two horses in which Harthill couldn't administer some nefarious substance to Sunday Silence. Basically the argument goes that Whittingham was a despicable cheater who was prevented from cheating in this one race by the tremendous barn-security that exists - apparently - "only in New York."

Thanks. I never knew there was that much talk. Shocking that the beloved Alex Harthill was involved in the story. Personally, I'm still waiting for the DRF to add vet stats to its PPs. I'm sure NY's Doc Cheney and his young Vader-like protege, Dr. Allday used only Jedi holistic powers to maintain the Phipps Empire....er...I mean...Stable...

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

he'll have to do better than that I'm afraid.

Wilhelm says "my name is Tonya", not "Tina"

its as if you have no business skills whatsoever.

well I'm just trying to get ahead.

What's my name?

....uhhh......Mulva?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What's my name?

....uhhh......Mulva?

I prefer to be called maestro.