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#1
03-18-2008, 02:05 AM
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#2
03-18-2008, 06:25 AM
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I think you could call the top five from those 13 'great'.. The rest range from near-great to outstanding to very , very good. 1. Point Given 2, Ghostzapper 3. Silverbulletday 4. Congaree 5. Mineshaft
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#3
03-19-2008, 02:45 AM
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i am shocked... azeri is not great ? i dont care who she beat... she did beat some very good ones though... but anyway 11 grade 1's... if i counted right... as well as a number of grade 2's... in my opinion she is a legend... i thought for sure 11 grade 1 wins gets you more respect then this
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#4
03-19-2008, 07:59 AM
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azeri got most of those races out west, in her hoy year, she only travelled as far east as arlington and oaklawn. when she finally came east, she 'wasn't the same'. a lot of people gave excuse after excuse why she wasn't as good as the year before, but maybe she just wasn't as good as people thought. i enjoyed azeri very much, but i wouldn't call her a true great.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#5
03-19-2008, 08:17 AM
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When Azeri won her debut by open lengths in 1:08 and change - she paid 17/1 to win - however, someone made a killing with her in the multi-win exotics.
The 7/2 second choice won the next race - and the $2 double paid only $74.40 (the parlay was $168.40) The 3/2 favorite won the following race - and the $1 pick 3 paid only an absurd $47.40 - almost five times less than the parlay! Just imagine having a 17/1 shot winner, and than catching a 7/2 second choice, and 3/2 favorite in the next two races and getting less than $50 per pop! When Brad Free wrote about the race - he noted that the P3 was paying only $106 to an 8/1 shot in the last race of the sequence. Imagine hitting a 17/1 over 7/2 over 8/1 P3 and getting that! It was very odd stuff - because someone was hammering Azeri in the multi-win exotics - but she was a total lobster in the win pool that day.
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#6
03-19-2008, 08:25 AM
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ok, but is it just me or are ppl giving her no respect. no one could convince me that i am wrong on this one. she won 11 grade 1's, possible 2 bredders cup distaffs if lukas just runs her there, instead of going in one the deepest classics ever. she won the apple blossom twice, won at the spa. and this poster above is saying she did not travel well, thats not true at all
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#7
03-19-2008, 08:31 AM
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no, don't put words in my mouth. or posts. when she finally left deseroux, who won the hoy with her and deserves a lot of credit for that, and travelled east, she didn't win like she had on the west coast. many said oh, but last year she was really good, maybe she's tailed off a bit. no, maybe the horses back east were more talented then those she had beat up on out west. i thought her bc distaff win was very good, i thought she was a very deserving hoy, and got much grief because of it. but when she faced those on the east coast, she no longer looked like the dominating mare she had been in cali. maybe if she had run in the classic the previous year, she could have won it. it was due to volponi pulling the upset that day that she got hoy..but maybe she wouldn't have. i gave her plenty of respect when she ran, and took a lot of heat in the discussions about whether she merited HOY that year or not...i thought she did. but as to whether she belongs in the 'great' category, imo she does not. but that's just my opinion, and in no way am i trying to change yours. i'm just giving you a reason why many would not consider her as great. also, i think there's a huge difference in giving 'no respect' and not being willing to call a horse 'great'. plenty of room in between.
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#8
03-19-2008, 07:34 PM
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#9
03-20-2008, 05:25 AM
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Here is a look at Lava Man's early form...note the impressive debut Beyer at the fair circuit... http://www.drf.com/row/pps/lavaman.pdf
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#10
03-18-2008, 06:52 AM
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He never did win a Grade 1 race...and his pair of Grade 2 wins were moderate figure wise. As you remember, I bet him with great enthusiasim in the BC Juvenile at better than 40/1 only for him to run 2nd to the European Johannesburg.
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#11
03-18-2008, 03:21 PM
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#12
03-18-2008, 12:47 PM
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ten most wanted is great for me.... had him in the exacta in the belmont pounded him to win in the travers, with straight exacta with peace rules
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#13
03-18-2008, 02:37 PM
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It is too bad that the geldings (Funny Cide and Perfect Drift) combined to eliminate any chances he had in the BCC by almost knocking him over in the first turn. He probably wouldn't have beaten the winner that day anyway, but I think he certainly could have gotten a minor share.
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#15
03-18-2008, 04:39 PM
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http://www.drf.com/row/pps/clockstopper.pdf
That's his form - as for what happened to him....no clue.
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#16
03-18-2008, 05:06 PM
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#17
03-18-2008, 05:20 PM
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I think so now that you mention it.
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