Dr. Kevorkian to run for Congress.......

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

The argument is whether or not he should be assisting them with it. He's not forcing them to die a slow death... if they want to, they are more than welcome to pull the trigger on their own accord.

Not disagreeing with what you said, but just offering the other side.

You apparently overlooked the "peace and dignity" part of my post.

I'm well aware that there are myriad ways for a terminally ill person to kill him or herself.

Pardon the snark, I know you're not being a jerk, but there's a huge difference between helping someone painlessly and peacefully medicate themself to death and asking someone to blow their head off because of their illness. It wouldn't seem exactly proper to invite your family over to spend your last moments with you that way.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

You apparently overlooked the "peace and dignity" part of my post.

I'm well aware that there are myriad ways for a terminally ill person to kill him or herself.

Pardon the snark, I know you're not being a jerk, but there's a huge difference between helping someone painlessly and peacefully medicate themself to death and asking someone to blow their head off because of their illness. It wouldn't seem exactly proper to invite your family over to spend your last moments with you that way.

I said 'pull the trigger', but obviously there are other ways of doing it, many of which would be quick and painless. Some would argue that killing yourself or having someone else kill you (the definition of murder any way you want to look at it) offers neither dignity OR peace.

Like I said, I can see it both ways. I just don't believe it to be as black and white of an issue as you are painting it.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I said 'pull the trigger', but obviously there are other ways of doing it, many of which would be quick and painless. Some would argue that killing yourself or having someone else kill you (the definition of murder any way you want to look at it) offers neither dignity OR peace.

Like I said, I can see it both ways. I just don't believe it to be as black and white of an issue as you are painting it.

While it's obviously not black & white in the most simple sense, it's absolutely black and white in my worldview -- the one where people live and let live.

Don't want to kill yourself? Then don't. But stop telling other people how to live their lives.

Perhaps it's a philosophical divide I can never bridge, but I simply can't see an intellectually honest argument that would be remotely persuasive in trying to say that a mentally capable adult with a terminal disease, with multiple doctors' opinions, who is 100% guaranteed to die a miserable, terrible death worse than any of us could ever imagine, should be denied the right to ask a professional to help them make their death the exact opposite, painless and peaceful.

Unless, of course, forcing people to endure massive, unthinkable, pain is your definition of "peace," and considering that you are a Republican...it very well may be.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Unless, of course, forcing people to endure massive, unthinkable, pain is your definition of "peace," and considering that you are a Republican...it very well may be.

Kind of a low blow, B. As a Christian (this has nothing to do with politics-I wish you'd quit dogging me for being a Republican), I believe that another human being should not assist in the death of another. It's murder. You keep using the word "force", but he's not forcing them to do anything. If a person wants to commit suicide, that is their prerogative, but another person should not be involved in that. JMO.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Kind of a low blow, B. As a Christian (this has nothing to do with politics-I wish you'd quit dogging me for being a Republican), I believe that another human being should not assist in the death of another. It's murder. You keep using the word "force", but he's not forcing them to do anything. If a person wants to commit suicide, that is their prerogative, but another person should not be involved in that. JMO.

Oh come on, what do you mean "quit," like I do it all the time. When was the last time I seriously bothered to even get into one of these discussions? It's not like I chase you around and give you **** on a regular basis.

And my "low blow" was a riff on the theme of "we are here to bring you peace *drops bombs every****ingwhere*"

Regardless of the word "force," the point is that in a physician-assisted suicide, folks can have some sense of closure for their families as well, in a controlled environment. Read up on the Death with Dignity work they do in Oregon, it's brilliant. These people are able to bring their families into the process, families who are watching them suffer terribly. They are able to have an appropriate goodbye, and often these families are able to spend the last moments of life with their ailing family members. There is a stark difference between that, and sending someone an email that says "can you come wipe my brain off the wall sometime after 2pm today?" To me, there is an incredibly important distinction of 'dignity' in the way someone kills themself. If you don't allow someone to have a professional assist them in a painless, clean way, then you are yes, forcing them to do something potentially more harmful and more painful and less peaceful.

While I'm getting riled up about it, Bob is absolutely right on what the bread and butter of this issue is -- and I've gone somewhat off-topic.

If I am dying, who gets to tell me what to do with my body? You? Or me?

That's the worldview difference here. I think I get to choose what to do with myself. You think you do.

[Mortimer]

Do you all see why I hate people now?

[Mortimer]

Too kind Hossy....that means a lot to me.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

OOOOOOOOOO

No it doesn't.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

While it's obviously not black & white in the most simple sense, it's absolutely black and white in my worldview -- the one where people live and let live.

Don't want to kill yourself? Then don't. But stop telling other people how to live their lives.

Perhaps it's a philosophical divide I can never bridge, but I simply can't see an intellectually honest argument that would be remotely persuasive in trying to say that a mentally capable adult with a terminal disease, with multiple doctors' opinions, who is 100% guaranteed to die a miserable, terrible death worse than any of us could ever imagine, should be denied the right to ask a professional to help them make their death the exact opposite, painless and peaceful.

Unless, of course, forcing people to endure massive, unthinkable, pain is your definition of "peace," and considering that you are a Republican...it very well may be.

I'm neither a republican or a Christian...reducing an argument to it's simplist terms is often beneficial in science...seldom in life. Your attitude that opposition to euthanasia = heartlessness and a desire to see folks suffer is repulsive!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I'm neither a republican or a Christian...reducing an argument to it's simplist terms is often beneficial in science...seldom in life. Your attitude that opposition to euthanasia = heartlessness and a desire to see folks suffer is repulsive!

Much as I find your opposition to physican-assisted suicide.

We'll have to call it a draw.