CRIST: Changes dilute Cup's appeal

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That may well be true but then the question is how much of the racing fan will be lost to the NFL. Also, the 2% of the available audience on Friday might actually be more than the 2% of the available audience on Sunday.

I guess it's sad that we're debating about trying to attract maybe 2% of an audience.

The most obvious thing is that while the BC is trying so hard to appeal to a wider population, they are turning off their core customer.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

then they will disrupt it with a curling match....or god forbid - arena football

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

then they will disrupt it with a curling match....or god forbid - arena football

Bowling...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

then they will disrupt it with a curling match....or god forbid - arena football

Hey, curling is a great sport. Lots of finesse and mind games involved. And good players can come in all shapes and sizes. Like snooker (which gets wall-to-wall afternoon coverage on the BBC). Moreover, like horse racing, it is rooted in history, unlike the bastardization of a great outdoor game like football. (Okay, I am from Minnesota so sports on ice have a special appeal. AND we spent a sabbatical year in Canada where curling is second only to ice hockey among winter sports. For myself, they could lose boxing forever off TV and I would be happy. It is a disgusting excuse for a sport, IMHO. But my dad likes it!)

[Kasept]

Have to admit that the 10 years living in Canada made me a Curling fan as well..

[ddthetide]

if they feel a need to split the event, why not make a juvenile day and make all those races on friday or make it a saturday- sunday event.
as it stands now instead of Ladies Day call it BC Oaks Day.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

if they feel a need to split the event, why make a juvenile day and make all those races on friday or make it a saturday- sunday event.
as it stands now instead of Ladies Day call it BC Oaks Day.

I essentially agree. Add the Turf Sprint and Marathon to bookend the card and you have a decent Pick-6 of somewhat related races headlined by two big events.

Far too intelligent a concept.

[Payson Dave]

A couple of random thoughts on the subject....
Handle drives the game..participation of the fan base largely drives the handle.
Fan base falls into several categories... Hardcore, casual, newbie.
Newbies evolve to become Casuals...Casuals evolve to become Hardcore
Increasing the pool of Newbies and expediting the fan evolution process may well be keys to the long term survival of the sport. IMHO promotion, education, and incentive are keys to both bringing in more newbies and expediting fanbase evolution.
Kentucky Oaks day has become a hugh event in Louisville and to some extent with the hardcore fans of the sport...it is not that big with the non-Louisville casual fans of the sport.
Newbies are generally created by attending live racing and to a lesser extent by media coverage of the sport... in either case it is the casual and/or hardcore fan that frequently gets the newbie initially involved.
The Breeders Cup Friday card is not likely to add many new fans to the game...the on track attendance at the host track may improve via more of the Saturday crowd coming out a day earlier,but to a large extent that was happening anyway.
Any increase in Friday handle at non-host track venues will not likely be coming from new fans.

[Cannon Shell]

I understand about the people working but there is lots of advance time and if you are traveling to get there you would not be working on Friday anyway. Plus Saratoga, Keeneland and Del Mar do awfully well on weekdays. I am just disheartend by a supposed championship event being run by people who dont have any clue and ithe fact that they may make changes that make these seem pedestrian

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand about the people working but there is lots of advance time and if you are traveling to get there you would not be working on Friday anyway. Plus Saratoga, Keeneland and Del Mar do awfully well on weekdays. I am just disheartend by a supposed championship event being run by people who dont have any clue and ithe fact that they may make changes that make these seem pedestrian

I think Bill Farish has Pretty good Ideal of what is going on in Racing Probably more so than you.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

I think Bill Farish has Pretty good Ideal of what is going on in Racing Probably more so than you.

Chuck has a better idea of what is really going on in every facet of the game than anybody on that commitee.

That's no insult to Will Farrish.....it is what it is.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

I think Bill Farish has Pretty good Ideal of what is going on in Racing Probably more so than you.

That is ridiclous. I dont have any idea what Bill Farish knows but I do know that the hardcore fans of racing have been alarmingly up in arms about the changes. I do know that "win and your in" is strictly a marketing device (and a weak one at that) Imagine if an NCAA team was guaranteed a spot in the tourney by winning the Maui Classic? I do know that running a Breeders Cup race on Breeders Cup day and not having it televised (the marathon) seems like a bad idea. I do know that renaming the Distaff wont attract one more viewer or gambling dollar. I have run horses in both the Breeders Cup and Hong Kong Invitational and there is no question about where we were treated better both on the backside and frontside. I do know that alienating your most passionate fans in puzzling attempts to create new fans not a good idea.

As opposed to stating why you believe I am incorrect, you post "Bill Farish is smarter than you". I can tell you a few things that I know that Bill Farish cant . I can post the views of a fan with no family connections to the game, I can post the view of a broke college student that needs to cash a bet to have money to eat, I can post a view of a college educated guy living in a tack room while learning the ropes grooming from the ground up, I can post the view of a racing official, I can post the view of a private trainer, I can post the view of a public trainer, I can post the view of a small breeder, I can post the view of an owner. I can post the view of a pinhooker.I have been all of the above. Maybe I am not as smart as the illustrious board members but I know alot more about what people both in and out of the business reallyfeel about what is going on.

[blackthroatedwind]

But other than that Chuck.....have you ever hosted a Tea for the Queen?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

But other than that Chuck.....have you ever hosted a Tea for the Queen?

I stay away from all kinds of queens

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I stay away from all kinds of queens

I can really think of something funny to say......but it would make Beth too happy.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

I think Bill Farish has Pretty good Ideal of what is going on in Racing Probably more so than you.

Have you spoken with people like Farish and others about these issues. I have. Not on this topic specifically, but I have had the chance to speak with some of the members of racing's "elite" about issues and am always dumbfounded by their answers. People like the Farishes and the Phipps' may be steeped in the traditions of the game and may know all about granddads breeding farm but that's about it. Ask them how the trainers feel about certain management decisions. Ask them how horseplayers feel about things. They may walk around at Saratoga and Keeneland and Belmont etc and might even walk between groups of horseplayers, but they are in a bubble. They don't interact with the crowd. They may be "in it" but they are not "of it."
People who run BC exist in the same bubble. They hire marketing firms with no ties to racing and it's traditions or it's participants. I'll take Cannon Shell's statements. He's out there everyday, participating in the game. He certainly knoews more about it than some "Jr. Marketing Analyst" on Madison Ave.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I guess it's sad that we're debating about trying to attract maybe 2% of an audience.

The most obvious thing is that while the BC is trying so hard to appeal to a wider population, they are turning off their core customer.

for bc day for how many years now, they had some other races on the card before the bc races started. they should have just made a big day of it, and left it at that. if they wanted to add a race or two, and fill a ten race card, fine. but this two day, segregated by sex deal, is not going to help anything. where else does anything like this two day event happen? and work?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

for bc day for how many years now, they had some other races on the card before the bc races started. they should have just made a big day of it, and left it at that. if they wanted to add a race or two, and fill a ten race card, fine. but this two day, segregated by sex deal, is not going to help anything. where else does anything like this two day event happen? and work?

Golf

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Golf

Tennis. The women's NCAA basketball tournament.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Tennis. The women's NCAA basketball tournament.

tennis finals generally fall on saturday and then sunday, i know as i used to watch.
as for the ncaa women, haven't a clue. i don't even watch mens b'ball....