CRIST: Changes dilute Cup's appeal

Holland Hacker · #1 02-29-2008, 10:23 PM

Well I WAS considering making the transcontinental trip from NJ to Cali for the '08 Breeders Cup but now I think I'll take a pass. It is absurd that the BC Limited actually thinks this is a "good" idea.

Cannon Shell · #2 02-29-2008, 11:03 PM

Racing always misses the boat with their marketing so why would they get it right this time? They simply seem to forget that most racing fans are smarter than the average joe (KRIM as a prime example) especially compared to the average NASCAR fan (sorry cajun) yet they continue to try to dumbdown the game for mass appeal. Racing is complicated and a good part of the allure is the challenge of trying to figure it out. Rather than attempting to identify that type of potential customer (many who would be older than the demographic that they lust after) they give us a supposed championship day disguised as Ladies Night as though it were a happy hour promotion. As opposed to using modern technology like HDtv, they give away t shirts, clocks and waste paper baskets. Rather than ask people who are fans what they think or want, they piss away money listening to some junior exec at a second tier marketing agency.

King Glorious · #3 02-29-2008, 11:11 PM

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a single problem with this. We as racing fans were going to watch the races on Friday and Saturday no matter which races were on which days anyway. I see nothing wrong with trying to market things in a different way. Say for example Rags to Riches had finished the year out and ran in the BC but not in the Classic. In all of their marketing and advertising, the BC could tell fans to come out to see all three TC race winners.....only Rags would be in a different race and that race would be overshadowed by the Classic, the race for HOY. Rags would have been reduced to second fiddle. By having her run on the first day, they can basically showcase her. I don't see anything wrong with that. What's so wrong with trying to market two days instead of just one?

Danzig · #4 02-29-2008, 11:18 PM

a lot of folks work on fridays. i look forward to the bc, and treat it as a rare afternoon to watch race after race of what's supposed to be the best of the best.
so, what, now i go home and fast forward thru a bunch of filler to get to post time for those races, so i can hurry and watch a days races from friday before bed time?
also, a lot of fans enjoyed seeing that distaff..oh, excuse me, filly and mare classic-why shouldn't it be on the big day? why is it relegated to friday? to an afterthought? or in this case, a prelude to the big day.

so now those people buying those expensive tix to the saturday races, won't be getting what they used to get. i bet they mind!

Cannon Shell · #5 02-29-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

so now those people buying those expensive tix to the saturday races, won't be getting what they used to get. i bet they mind!

I'm guessing that like the rest of sports that tickets will only be sold for both events, not individually.

Danzig · #6 02-29-2008, 11:28 PM

wouldn't surprise me.
a lot of colleges now require season ticket buyers to make a 'donation' to the booster club as well...

i wouldn't want friday tix. that would be when i was travelling to the track....but yeah, no doubt that's what they'll do. twie the fun at twice the price, yippeee.

Linny · #7 02-29-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a single problem with this. We as racing fans were going to watch the races on Friday and Saturday no matter which races were on which days anyway. I see nothing wrong with trying to market things in a different way. Say for example Rags to Riches had finished the year out and ran in the BC but not in the Classic. In all of their marketing and advertising, the BC could tell fans to come out to see all three TC race winners.....only Rags would be in a different race and that race would be overshadowed by the Classic, the race for HOY. Rags would have been reduced to second fiddle. By having her run on the first day, they can basically showcase her. I don't see anything wrong with that. What's so wrong with trying to market two days instead of just one?

To me, having Rags race on Day 1 (in your scenario) is to make her "second fiddle." Sorry but the biggest race "the day before" doesn't stand equal to the Classic or anyhting on Saturday. The Personal Ensign is run on the Fri before the Travers, does anyone care?

Cannon Shell · #8 02-29-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

To me, having Rags race on Day 1 (in your scenario) is to make her "second fiddle." Sorry but the biggest race "the day before" doesn't stand equal to the Classic or anyhting on Saturday. The Personal Ensign is run on the Fri before the Travers, does anyone care?

I hate to break it to everyone but Rags to Riches is not a 'crossover fan' attraction (not crossdressing). Her 15 minutes are up until she does something notble again.

Linny · #9 02-29-2008, 11:57 PM

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

Danzig · #10 03-01-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

but it's us racing freaks who the powers that be should be taking care of.

take what works, make it better. quality, not quantity.

Cannon Shell · #11 03-01-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

especially if she runs on Friday during rush hour

blackthroatedwind · #12 03-01-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

Very true.....but I would add that racing her on the " real " BC card would keep her in the headlines, so to speak.

The other problem, that I'm not sure has been mentioned so far, is that instead of the Saturday races being a complete " championship day ", they will be watered down to include the, perhaps fun, but irrelevent BC Turf Sprint, BC Juvenile Turf and BC Marathon. These races were conceived as, essentially, lead-ins to the big day, and now they are part of the main event at the exclusion of others.

As has been well stated here by Chuck, the BC is furthering a mistake that racetracks in general make, in a misguided attempt to attract a new audience that may or may not truly exist, they have spurned the needs and desires of their core and dedicated customers. We need to take care of these people a whole lot better before we should be worried about adding to their numbers.

King Glorious · #13 02-29-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hate to break it to everyone but Rags to Riches is not a 'crossover fan' attraction (not crossdressing). Her 15 minutes are up until she does something notble again.

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

Danzig · #14 03-01-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

them who?? the them who think that a good race makes a good horse?

AeWingnut · #15 03-01-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

I hope not but...........................
I don't think the Messiah, Rags to Riches will come again.
I think she is done.

More is sometimes less
and the new format is just greed

Dunbar · #16 03-01-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Racing always misses the boat with their marketing so why would they get it right this time? They simply seem to forget that most racing fans are smarter than the average joe ...yet they continue to try to dumbdown the game for mass appeal. Racing is complicated and a good part of the allure is the challenge of trying to figure it out.

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

brockguy · #17 03-01-2008, 02:32 PM

With so many years of stability in the Breeders Cup, you have just so many changes over the past number of years that it has gotten a bit crazy. I suppose most people are thinking what the hell have they got in store for next year??

Cannon Shell · #18 03-01-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

I couldn't blame anyone for not betting Ellis Park if they offered free bets. Even though a lot of fans read the form and dont really know what they are doing, at least they can read unlike the vast majority of the NASCAR fan base (sorry Cajun and Slotdirt)

letswastemoney · #19 03-01-2008, 03:57 PM

If they did that 4% takeout thing at a major circuit track (SA, Hol, Bel, Churchill), I believe it would work. I just don't like Ellis cards because I'm not familiar with the horses or the jockey and trainer patterns.

Cannon Shell · #20 03-01-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If they did that 4% takeout thing at a major circuit track (SA, Hol, Bel, Churchill), I believe it would work. I just don't like Ellis cards because I'm not familiar with the horses or the jockey and trainer patterns.

Exactly. For players that dont follow the circuit, (and Ellis is mostly made up of lower tier KY horses, Indiana horses and Fairmont horses)the takeout is not appealing because they have no clue about what is going on. I'm sure if Saratoga during that time period had the same bet with the same takeout it would have been a big success. Plus for lower takeout to truly be effective it must be in effect for a long period of time.