Bernadini/the reason for my doubts

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So, you didn't think he was worth 1-5, but you still singled him despite feeling the need to use eight horses in the finale. Really? Sounds like instead of blaming Albertrani you should be blaming yourself as you made one HORRENDOUS bet.

And don't come back with " but I was trying to beat Biancone's horse " or any such hogwash, as the simple fact is you anchored your ticket with a horse you knew was going to be 1-5 and are now agreeing you knew he wasn't that good. There seems to be a substantial difference between the truth and the facts.

Once again....he did not run any worse than either of his two previous races.

Hogwash? Well lets see, he was 8-5 despite showing only 3 published workouts and was overbet I thought(although he may have been best to be totally honest) off his expensive purchase price. Hushion's horse in the next leg always spots the field a football field in lengths and with that outside post was definitely beatable. The last race was simply inscrutable to me, moreso because not only were they evenly matched, but i felt that there was an outside bias that work agaisnt the prime contenders who all had speed. I think it was quite logical to think that a price could come in any of those three races and in two of those races very likely.
Actually had I gone one more deep in the race I would have taken Noonmark who was absolutely dreadful. No way I was ever going to play the winner, none. So its not like it cost me the 190 grand that the winning ticket paid to the winners.
As far as his price goes, I don't know a horse alive that anyone with a brain would ever bet at 1-5. Its simply silly. But trying to construct a pik-4 where you see possible value in three legs and use a very likely winner as an anchor is not at all foolish provided your opinion on the other races is good.

[blackthroatedwind]

I understand that in order to play the Pick-4 that YOU CHOSE TO PLAY you needed a single somewhere. However, you chose Songster, and instead of moving on chose to call his trainer everything from a liar to a dwarf. It is that behavoir that I find reprehensible.

Once you realize doing that was, at best, a mistake we can move on to a logical explanation of why Songster ran a similar race yesterday to his two previous efforts. Frankly, if you can't just say your previous comments were a mistake, I have nothing further to say. Sorry if I believe Tom Albertrani deserves just a little more respect than that.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I understand that in order to play the Pick-4 that YOU CHOSE TO PLAY you needed a single somewhere. However, you chose Songster, and instead of moving on chose to call his trainer everything from a liar to a dwarf. It is that behavoir that I find reprehensible.

Once you realize doing that was, at best, a mistake we can move on to a logical explanation of why Songster ran a similar race yesterday to his two previous efforts. Frankly, if you can't just say your previous comments were a mistake, I have nothing further to say. Sorry if I believe Tom Albertrani deserves just a little more respect than that.

Hes either a liar or incompetent in this case. Once the figs come out if he has indeed run his usual race I will retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas. So if the figs come out lower will that be an indication that he did NOT run his typical race? Or is it just that its that way because you say so?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes either a liar or incompetent in this case. Once the figs come out if he has indeed run his usual race I will retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas. So if the figs come out lower will that be an indication that he did NOT run his typical race? Or is it just that its that way because you say so?

Nothing like being a man of one's word.

[blackthroatedwind]

Jerry will give me the number if I call him ( I'm also sure Byk can get it ) but they probably haven't even done it yet.

The race was pretty fast and anyone that understands comparing relative time knows that. You don't need the actual figs to know that Songster's effort matches up reasonably well to his previous ones. It's merely a question of objectivity.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Jerry will give me the number if I call him ( I'm also sure Byk can get it ) but they probably haven't even done it yet.

The race was pretty fast and anyone that understands comparing relative time knows that. You don't need the actual figs to know that Songster's effort matches up reasonably well to his previous ones. It's merely a question of objectivity.

Alright, I'll let you guys take care of it....I am doing the grunt work of the TG vs Rags study, pretty interesting stuff going on there

[Scav]

Black, you play with TG's?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Songster went way too fast. Not only did he run the half in :44 1/5(actually :44 2/5 because the actual number was 44.38), but he was three-wide all the way around the turn. Not only that, the track was dead yesterday. Considering that he went three-wide and the track was dead, his half-mile played like a :43 3/5 on a normal track. That's just way too fast for him. He normally runs the half in :45. He's gone :44 3/5 a couple of times but that was at 7 furlongs where more of the first half-mile is run on a straightaway and not around a turn. In addition, it was at Gulfstream which was playing 1000x faster than Saratoga was playing yesterday. Songster basically ran his half-mile yesterday about 5-6 lengths faster than normal.

Anyway, Songster got very tired yesterday but what would you expect with him setting those suicide fractions.

I have no idea how good of a trainer Albertrani is, but his losing with Songster yesterday doesn't prove anything. Pletcher has probably lost 200 times with odds-on favorites. That doesn't mean anything.

[Kasept]

I don't care to get into a long response to any part of the talk here except in one area. Tom Albertrani is neither a liar nor incompetant. He is in fact one of the most gracious, decent, humble and genuine people I've come across in the industry, and he enjoys the confidence and respect of some of the most important people in the business. And that opinion is shared by everyone with even a modicum of contact with the backstretch. I certainly hope the bile spewed above is one born of frustration over an excruciating loss and will at some point be modified or retracted. Personally, I find it as insulting and lowbrow as the swipes taken by ladbrooke at First Samurai the other day.

As an aside to Mike, what you've written here is well beneath you.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I understand that in order to play the Pick-4 that YOU CHOSE TO PLAY you needed a single somewhere. However, you chose Songster, and instead of moving on chose to call his trainer everything from a liar to a dwarf. It is that behavoir that I find reprehensible.

Once you realize doing that was, at best, a mistake we can move on to a logical explanation of why Songster ran a similar race yesterday to his two previous efforts. Frankly, if you can't just say your previous comments were a mistake, I have nothing further to say. Sorry if I believe Tom Albertrani deserves just a little more respect than that.

And I find calling leading trainers punks and cheaters equally as bad.

[GPK]

*GPK dips in the popcorn bowl and awaits the return volley*

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GPK

*GPK dips in the popcorn bowl and awaits the return volley*

lol
hey kev, how's things?
and i'm gnawing on dinner while reading this. very entertaining.

now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

[Thoroughbred Fan]

This is only my second post in the thread. I agree with BTW that this is sour grapes about a bet. I think Oracle is a very smart guy who has lost it on this particular point. I bet he regrets the personal insults about Albertrani. He is a very good trainer, perhaps top 15 in the country and he had a horse who didn't run particularly well. I have owned many horses and would love to own one who finishes second in a Grade 2.

Now let's kill this worthless thread and move on to passing on info about future runners and races.

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

This is only my second post in the thread. I agree with BTW that this is sour grapes about a bet. I think Oracle is a very smart guy who has lost it on this particular point. I bet he regrets the personal insults about Albertrani. He is a very good trainer, perhaps top 15 in the country and he had a horse who didn't run particularly well. I have owned many horses and would love to own one who finishes second in a Grade 2.

Now let's kill this worthless thread and move on to passing on info about future runners and races.

I think you are wrong and i do not apologize. So beyer wants us to believe that Court Folly ran 15 points better than anything he ever ran? Hysterical!!! Thast why these are worthless folks. Lets check out the sheet numbers.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

And I find calling leading trainers punks and cheaters equally as bad.

So do I...and when you find me doing either on feel free to draw as much attention to it as you like.

Let's see how much Oracle makes fun of Albertrani if he has a 100K pick 6 on the line with Bernardini singled on Travers day. I suspect the dwarf will become a giant overnight if he wins and Oracle is cashing the ticket. I just think it is crazy to get personal about it because are you going to leave Songster off the Pick 6 ticket in the Kings Bishop just because you don't like the way he trains? Sounds like a way to get burnt to me.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Let's see how much Oracle makes fun of Albertrani if he has a 100K pick 6 on the line with Bernardini singled on Travers day. I suspect the dwarf will become a giant overnight if he wins and Oracle is cashing the ticket. I just think it is crazy to get personal about it because are you going to leave Songster off the Pick 6 ticket in the Kings Bishop just because you don't like the way he trains? Sounds like a way to get burnt to me.

I will bet him Albertrani or any trainer if I feel his horse has a chance to win. Its stupid to toss a horse out because of a reason like you say. I think Henny Hughes will be EXTREMELY tough to beat in the Kings Bishop though.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Amsterdam got a 108 Beyer Speed figure....Songster got a 104 or one point higher than he earned in the Woody Stephens and three points less than the Hirsch Jacobs.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Amsterdam got a 108 Beyer Speed figure....Songster got a 104 or one point higher than he earned in the Woody Stephens and three points less than the Hirsch Jacobs.

I'll get Steve to ask Jerry Brown of Tg what he got in the race and if he ran his typical negative 2 then I apologize. I have no faith in Beyers.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Amsterdam got a 108 Beyer Speed figure....Songster got a 104 or one point higher than he earned in the Woody Stephens and three points less than the Hirsch Jacobs.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm predicting right now that Court Folly will run something less than a 108 BSF in his next start.