Bernadini/the reason for my doubts

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Oracle,

I think you are a pretty sharp guy who sometimes posts some really dumb things. Name calling is not going to get your money back on the bet. Betting horses is tough becasue no matter what they can lose. I am not defending Albertrani at all, but the alternative is to not have trainers give any comment to DRF.

People are wrong all the time, even the great trainers. Pletcher sent out Oonagh Maccool who was short. Or was she? Sometimes horses get a little bug that doesn't show up until after the race. Have you ever heard "She came out of the race with a little fever."? It happens.

I feel like you know enough about the game to know better than to call people names because you lost money. Please continue to provide valuable insight on this forum, but stop posting things you will later regret having said.

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

[blackthroatedwind]

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Thanks, next time I'm looking for a grade one horse to buy I will think of those things.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

You know Blackthroat. A few years back, maybe 7-9 years ago a guy up here at the track had a monster pik-6 going with a Frankel filly in the Ballerina. he had singled her and Bailey was aboard. She was a very short price. I felt she was overbet and wound up hitting the race when Bailey had no choice but to go inside down the lane and got in traffic trouble. The guy got beat out of a horrible score and sent so far as to blame Bailey and scream at him. I felt for the guy. I was sittiing in a box near him when it happened and it was awful to watch. Its up to debate whether the filly would have won or not with a cleaner trip. I believe it was Honest Lady who was beaten and I think it was a Shug filly who beat her. I don't know if you remember that race or not. Do you think that guy had a legitimate gripe to be mad at Bailey? I think he did. I also think I have a legitimate gripe with a clown who sends out a short horse in a grade two race and tells everyone how ready the horse is.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You know Blackthroat. A few years back, maybe 7-9 years ago a guy up here at the track had a monster pik-6 going with a Frankel filly in the Ballerina. he had singled her and Bailey was aboard. She was a very short price. I felt she was overbet and wound up hitting the race when Bailey had no choice but to go inside down the lane and got in traffic trouble. The guy got beat out of a horrible score and sent so far as to blame Bailey and scream at him. I felt for the guy. I was sittiing in a box near him when it happened and it was awful to watch. Its up to debate whether the filly would have won or not with a cleaner trip. I believe it was Honest Lady who was beaten and I think it was a Shug filly who beat her. I don't know if you remember that race or not. Do you think that guy had a legitimate gripe to be mad at Bailey? I think he did. I also think I have a legitimate gripe with a clown who sends out a short horse in a grade two race and tells everyone how ready the horse is.

Do you want this to denegrate into a pissing match about racetrack behavoir. Think VERY carefully before answering this.

Dream Supreme, trained by Bill Mott ( with assistant trainer Tom Albertrani ) trained her, and excuse me if I beg to differ that Bailey had " no choice " about taking the rail. It is, however, a 100% lie that I yelled at Bailey. Listen carefully - A 100% LIE!

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Do you want this to denegrate into a pissing match about racetrack behavoir. Think VERY carefully before answering this.

Dream Supreme, trained by Bill Mott ( with assistant trainer Tom Albertrani ) trained her, and excuse me if I beg to differ that Bailey had " no choice " about taking the rail. It is, however, a 100% lie that I yelled at Bailey. Listen carefully - A 100% LIE!

Actually I was speaking about a friend of Zitos from NYC. Guy had an absolute meltdown after the race and during it. He was live that day with Frankel and I guess it was Mott not Shug who won. I remember hitting the race because Nick had seen the winner train or something like that and we bet her and hit an exacta or tri or something like that. Nicks friend was not quite so pleased with the outcome as we were.

And actually Blackthroat Lansdon and I lost a tough pick-6 last year which paid over 100 grand because I missed Indian Vale. I blamed only myself for tossing her based on a slow sheet number debut and disregarding the breeding/trainer angle. I remember talking with you about it last year. I do not blame trainers/jocks when I lose with regularity. But that horse was dead short yesterday and he should be ashmaed of himself for either thinking he wasnt or representing that he was.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

Oracle, go look at his stats. 21% and 48% in the money. The man has only being publicly training since 2004. Mandella is only 11% win and Mott is 21% win. He was the head assistant trainer for Mott in New York. He has handled such horses of Daylami, Street Cry, Cigar, Sakhee, Fantastic Light and Imperial Gesture. I would say those are some pretty good horses. So dont be mad because you lost some money. Dont be mad because his 1/9 shot lost. Many of trainer has sent out a 1/9 and lost. And you have said before that horses arent machines and you have said that trainers are alwasy going to tout their horses in the press. Now Oracle, come up with some concrete data as to why Albertrani sucks. Tell me one horse that he has screwed up--dont give me just one race.

[Scav]

I can see we have a new cage match forming

Originally Posted by Scav

I can see we have a new cage match forming

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

Originally Posted by boldruler

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

LOL!!!!
Never said he was a joker, but hes not in the game's elite.

[Scurlogue Champ]

The arabs spread their horses around to everyone......

Apparently in England, every trainer has some Arab owned horses.

[Scurlogue Champ]

And when I say "every trainer" I don't really mean every one literally.

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!!!
Never said he was a joker, but hes not in the game's elite.

He has been training less than 2 years. Of course he isnt going to be in the elite. Give the man some time. He is doing one heck of a job so far.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

He has been training less than 2 years. Of course he isnt going to be in the elite. Give the man some time. He is doing one heck of a job so far.

With what horses? Other than Bernadini please name one.

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!!!
Never said he was a joker, but hes not in the game's elite.

Neither was Jimmy Croll. He sure knew how to place Holy Bull though.

[Gander]

How about Bushfire?

Originally Posted by boldruler

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

Ok so tell me about the great training jobs he has done in his name please. If he has done so many gret jobs it should be childs play to rattle them off your head.

Also I will bet any of you that before the Kings Bishop or Songster's next race that Albertrani tells the press that Songster was short before the Amsterdam. Anyone want that bet?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ok so tell me about the great training jobs he has done in his name please. If he has done so many gret jobs it should be childs play to rattle them off your head.

Again, he has only been training 2 years. You cant say if it is good or bad. But from the stats, he is doing a pretty good job. Time will only tell.