Bernadini/the reason for my doubts

I do not know enough about the trainer to make comment. But what I will comment on, is the fact that horses cannot talk. A trainer is so very important in being able to not only tell the level of fitness of a horse, and putting him in the appropriate races given current ability and fitness, but what kind of training will best suit the individual horse to get him to the desired level. If a horse shows vast unexpected improvement, how do we adjust the goals. If a horse shows great early promise and then tops out, how to rethink goals, and having enough respect and guts to tell the owners what you believe to be the truth about their million dollar investment that will no longer be able to take on the top level like once thought.

Think about humans in the top level of track. They all have trainers. And the top runners can tell the trainers when they are sore, what hurts, And they just dont feel good today, something aint right, im slipping badly on this surface, I need a friggin drink. Horses cannot talk.

This takes extraordinary people. The level of competition in the top tier is way too tough and fluid. Very talented horses pop out of nowhere. Good horses dont improve or dont want to run. I could screw up Bernardini. So could everyone else on this board.

I again think this is a case of the sage complex we have witnessed so often: taking an extraordinarily bred animal (which in itself is horribly inexact) that looks great moving and has a few extrordinary races, and proclaiming him the next great. Happens all the time and it is fun to write about.

[Buffymommy]

Now don't get me wrong. Bernardini is a good horse, but I have my reservations about him. Yes, he looked very impressive in his last two races, BUT didn't Sin Min look impressive in his Keenland romp? Didn't Bellamy Road look impressive in his romp as a three year old? There are more. AA looked impressive in a lot of races but you all are saying Bernardini is better than him too.

I guess that is why I am hesitant to get on this horse's bandwagon. Nothing to do with his trainer, owners, etc... Just want to see him go up against better competition before I title him "HOY" or even "Great".

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Oracle,

I think you are a pretty sharp guy who sometimes posts some really dumb things. Name calling is not going to get your money back on the bet. Betting horses is tough becasue no matter what they can lose. I am not defending Albertrani at all, but the alternative is to not have trainers give any comment to DRF.

People are wrong all the time, even the great trainers. Pletcher sent out Oonagh Maccool who was short. Or was she? Sometimes horses get a little bug that doesn't show up until after the race. Have you ever heard "She came out of the race with a little fever."? It happens.

I feel like you know enough about the game to know better than to call people names because you lost money. Please continue to provide valuable insight on this forum, but stop posting things you will later regret having said.

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

Oracle,

I think you are a pretty sharp guy who sometimes posts some really dumb things. Name calling is not going to get your money back on the bet. Betting horses is tough becasue no matter what they can lose. I am not defending Albertrani at all, but the alternative is to not have trainers give any comment to DRF.

People are wrong all the time, even the great trainers. Pletcher sent out Oonagh Maccool who was short. Or was she? Sometimes horses get a little bug that doesn't show up until after the race. Have you ever heard "She came out of the race with a little fever."? It happens.

I feel like you know enough about the game to know better than to call people names because you lost money. Please continue to provide valuable insight on this forum, but stop posting things you will later regret having said.

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

[blackthroatedwind]

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

Thanks, next time I'm looking for a grade one horse to buy I will think of those things.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, you are whining because you lost a bet, nothing more and nothing less.

So, trainer's are suddenly accountable ( in your world that is ) for everything they say. Good to know. Then, perhaps Dutrow should be held accountable for saying, in print, that Wild Desert was the best horse he had been around since Saint Liam. Boy did he defraud the poor betting public who were stupid enough to listen to him and bet Wild Desert in his next two ( losing ) efforts.

Try handicapping and blaming yourself when you lose for a change. Might make you reevaluate some of your handicapping principles and, believe it or not, strengthen your game.

You know Blackthroat. A few years back, maybe 7-9 years ago a guy up here at the track had a monster pik-6 going with a Frankel filly in the Ballerina. he had singled her and Bailey was aboard. She was a very short price. I felt she was overbet and wound up hitting the race when Bailey had no choice but to go inside down the lane and got in traffic trouble. The guy got beat out of a horrible score and sent so far as to blame Bailey and scream at him. I felt for the guy. I was sittiing in a box near him when it happened and it was awful to watch. Its up to debate whether the filly would have won or not with a cleaner trip. I believe it was Honest Lady who was beaten and I think it was a Shug filly who beat her. I don't know if you remember that race or not. Do you think that guy had a legitimate gripe to be mad at Bailey? I think he did. I also think I have a legitimate gripe with a clown who sends out a short horse in a grade two race and tells everyone how ready the horse is.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

You know Blackthroat. A few years back, maybe 7-9 years ago a guy up here at the track had a monster pik-6 going with a Frankel filly in the Ballerina. he had singled her and Bailey was aboard. She was a very short price. I felt she was overbet and wound up hitting the race when Bailey had no choice but to go inside down the lane and got in traffic trouble. The guy got beat out of a horrible score and sent so far as to blame Bailey and scream at him. I felt for the guy. I was sittiing in a box near him when it happened and it was awful to watch. Its up to debate whether the filly would have won or not with a cleaner trip. I believe it was Honest Lady who was beaten and I think it was a Shug filly who beat her. I don't know if you remember that race or not. Do you think that guy had a legitimate gripe to be mad at Bailey? I think he did. I also think I have a legitimate gripe with a clown who sends out a short horse in a grade two race and tells everyone how ready the horse is.

Do you want this to denegrate into a pissing match about racetrack behavoir. Think VERY carefully before answering this.

Dream Supreme, trained by Bill Mott ( with assistant trainer Tom Albertrani ) trained her, and excuse me if I beg to differ that Bailey had " no choice " about taking the rail. It is, however, a 100% lie that I yelled at Bailey. Listen carefully - A 100% LIE!

Originally Posted by oracle80

I reiterate strongly, the man is a liar or incompetent. Its either one or the other. I always insert and asterisk and disclaimer that if the horse has a bug or entraps or bleeds or gets injured that all comments on a poor performance are off the table. This case is no different. If the horse emerges with a problem than I take back every word about it. The man lied or he misjudged the fitness of a top flight animal. Its inexcusable and unprofessional. Missing a bug like Pletcher did and Ritchey did with Alex is quite understandable. Saying that the horse is ready to run and you have to run em wwhen they are ready if you are indeed prepping is just lying. The alternative is to tell the truth or not comment, not to lie.

Oracle, go look at his stats. 21% and 48% in the money. The man has only being publicly training since 2004. Mandella is only 11% win and Mott is 21% win. He was the head assistant trainer for Mott in New York. He has handled such horses of Daylami, Street Cry, Cigar, Sakhee, Fantastic Light and Imperial Gesture. I would say those are some pretty good horses. So dont be mad because you lost some money. Dont be mad because his 1/9 shot lost. Many of trainer has sent out a 1/9 and lost. And you have said before that horses arent machines and you have said that trainers are alwasy going to tout their horses in the press. Now Oracle, come up with some concrete data as to why Albertrani sucks. Tell me one horse that he has screwed up--dont give me just one race.

[Scav]

I can see we have a new cage match forming

Originally Posted by Scav

I can see we have a new cage match forming

It looks like it is over before it began. I too would be upset if a 1-10 shot lost costing me $5K, but he has no argument here. The guy is a very good trainer. The Arabs don't just let any joker train their horses.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Oracle, go look at his stats. 21% and 48% in the money. The man has only being publicly training since 2004. Mandella is only 11% win and Mott is 21% win. He was the head assistant trainer for Mott in New York. He has handled such horses of Daylami, Street Cry, Cigar, Sakhee, Fantastic Light and Imperial Gesture. I would say those are some pretty good horses. So dont be mad because you lost some money. Dont be mad because his 1/9 shot lost. Many of trainer has sent out a 1/9 and lost. And you have said before that horses arent machines and you have said that trainers are alwasy going to tout their horses in the press. Now Oracle, come up with some concrete data as to why Albertrani sucks. Tell me one horse that he has screwed up--dont give me just one race.

I note you are naming horses he has "been around". Completely unfair. Asst trainers do the majority of gruntwork but don't call the shots as far as training goes. That responsibility lies within the trainer. Mott trained Cigar, not anyone else. He made the calls. The guy who makes the calls is the guy who gets the glory or is the goat. In my opinion Don Zimmer had as much to with the Yankees winning those World series as Torre did. But Torre is the guy who had to make the calls.