Bernadini/the reason for my doubts

Originally Posted by boldruler

Oracle, you know more than just about anyone here, but you often say people are not looking at things rationally, and in this case you are biased. Anyone that lost 5G because a 1-5 shot couldn't win is going to be angry. The fact is that Albertrani has done everything right with Bernardini. He didn't rush the horse and now his patience has paid off. Flower Alley will have his day when he meets up with Bernardini, and while I hope Flower Alley wins, I don't expect him to even be close to Bernardini.

Hes a bald little dwarf and hes also incompetent. Hes been very lucky to be blessed with a horse like Bernadini but I will laugh loudly and taunt him and heckle him when he blows him up as I have total faith that he will.

The horse he ra yesterday was an embarassment. He was DEAD SHORT and Prado rode him just fine. Sat off the duel in the best part of the racetrack and made his move in a typical spot. That horse absolutely layed over the field and to have him be so short and weaving about was a disgrace. Hes a bad trainer, plain and simple. Tell me all about his great successes other than Bernadini, Im still waiting to hear all about them. He will screw him up just like she screwed up yesterday.

Originally Posted by oracle80

The horse he ra yesterday was an embarassment. He was DEAD SHORT and Prado rode him just fine. Sat off the duel in the best part of the racetrack and made his move in a typical spot. That horse absolutely layed over the field and to have him be so short and weaving about was a disgrace. Hes a bad trainer, plain and simple. Tell me all about his great successes other than Bernadini, Im still waiting to hear all about them. He will screw him up just like she screwed up yesterday.

Well, in my opinion Songster was compromised by chasing the fast fractions more than just getting dead tired from being not 100% cranked for the race.....just my opinion.....pace makes the race and it made that race....Songster was the onlt horse to finish well from the three that dueled out that grueling early agenda......I think he was fit enough to win....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Well, in my opinion Songster was compromised by chasing the fast fractions more than just getting dead tired from being not 100% cranked for the race.....just my opinion.....pace makes the race and it made that race....Songster was the onlt horse to finish well from the three that dueled out that grueling early agenda......I think he was fit enough to win....

Songster is not that good anyway. Henny Hughes will embarass him.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Songster is not that good anyway. Henny Hughes will embarass him.

Agreed........Bordonaro also showed me he was a rat on Sunday....

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Agreed........Bordonaro also showed me he was a rat on Sunday....

wow, rat is a bit harsh. Horse checked whether he was hit or not, not to mention jockey switch....horse has shipped well out of Cali so far this year. But opinions, are opinions.

[Gander]

I guess certain people on here can call horses "rats" and get away with it. When I do I get blasted. Ya ya ya.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Agreed........Bordonaro also showed me he was a rat on Sunday....

That's bullshiat...

Probably one of the more ignorant statements I've seen you make. Shame on you...

[Scav]

LOL, I love the saltyness....it is Scav style to a T.

This being said, while he was short, he also wasn't ready for a track like that which killed anything within 2 lengths of the lead, like quicksand yesterday

I think this was the case where they cared less about this race, which is somewhat decieving the public, and he is going to be tight as can be for the Kings Bishop, and at better odds if he would have won yesterday....

Mike, we will catch him next time

Originally Posted by Scav

LOL, I love the saltyness....it is Scav style to a T.

This being said, while he was short, he also wasn't ready for a track like that which killed anything within 2 lengths of the lead, like quicksand yesterday

I think this was the case where they cared less about this race, which is somewhat decieving the public, and he is going to be tight as can be for the Kings Bishop, and at better odds if he would have won yesterday....

Mike, we will catch him next time

If you bet him to win next time, you are wasting your money. He has not shot in the Kings Bishop.

[eajinabi]

Tom Albertrani had great teachers to help him learn the game. He was Mott's assistant as well as assistant to Saeed Bin Suroor. He had hands in Cigar, Street Cry, Imperial Gesture, Fantastic Light and Dayalami. He also had a brief career as a jockey

[blackthroatedwind]

Sorry, but I have a significantly different take on Songster, and said as much at Siro's yesterday morning. Yeah, I figured he would probably win yesterday, but only because the field was weak, but I still used an all in that race in my ( losing ) Pick-4 play. Simply put, I thought he was all dressed up with nowhere to go, and his previous two races were FAR from spectacular and merely the result of perfect trips ( coupled with Toomuchbling's bad one ). As a horseplayer, I am very careful about relying heavily on overbet favorites who are nowhere near as good as their undeserved reputations. There was little question in my mind that Songster fit that bill.

The idea that someone could watch that race, see the obvious premature move that Prado made, and then go on a tirade ( calling the trainer " incompetent " and a " dwarf " among other things ) and blame him for somehow disingenously running a " short " horse, all the while proclaiming himself to be some sort of respected person in the sport is as incredible to me as it is insulting in general. The simple truth is that if this horse was truly worth his odds he would have won in spite of the mediocre ride and he still would have won if in fact he was " short ", something I HIGHLY doubt. As I said before, I think he ran as well as he did in either of his last two races.

The person who should be mad, and unlike the author of this thread he is most likely blaming only himself, is Allen Jerkens, who almost certainly would have won the Amsterdam with Saint Damon had he run yesterday instead of Sunday. Or, perhaps, you think he is screaming something akin to " if I had only known that " expletive deleted " Albertrani was going to lie and run a short horse I would have scratched Sunday ".

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry, but I have a significantly different take on Songster, and said as much at Siro's yesterday morning. Yeah, I figured he would probably win yesterday, but only because the field was weak, but I still used an all in that race in my ( losing ) Pick-4 play. Simply put, I thought he was all dressed up with nowhere to go, and his previous two races were FAR from spectacular and merely the result of perfect trips ( coupled with Toomuchbling's bad one ). As a horseplayer, I am very careful about relying heavily on overbet favorites who are nowhere near as good as their undeserved reputations. There was little question in my mind that Songster fit that bill.

The idea that someone could watch that race, see the obvious premature move that Prado made, and then go on a tirade ( calling the trainer " incompetent " and a " dwarf " among other things ) and blame him for somehow disingenously running a " short " horse, all the while proclaiming himself to be some sort of respected person in the sport is as incredible to me as it is insulting in general. The simple truth is that if this horse was truly worth his odds he would have won in spite of the mediocre ride and he still would have won if in fact he was " short ", something I HIGHLY doubt. As I said before, I think he ran as well as he did in either of his last two races.

The person who should be mad, and unlike the author of this thread he is most likely blaming only himself, is Allen Jerkens, who almost certainly would have won the Amsterdam with Saint Damon had he run yesterday instead of Sunday. Or, perhaps, you think he is screaming something akin to " if I had only known that " expletive deleted " Albertrani was going to lie and run a short horse I would have scratched Sunday ".

The first thing I said to Steve after the race was how stupid the trainers were who did not enter the race because they were scared of Songster. I feel he would have finished off the board had enough decent horses entered. When playing a pik-4 the odds a horse goes off at are a different story than the odds on a horse you might bet to win. Noone alive is going to take 1-5 on a horse on a win bet or even in a dd bet, there is simply no value available.
The horse had numbers and his "perfect trips" were against horses who were MUCH better than those. Knock Bling all you want but hes won nicely since then and won nicely before his last race as well. The horse probably fell at least 5 points on Thoro.
I disagree with Edgar's ride. I thought it was great. The outside part of the track was DEFINITELY the place to be and on the backside he was very careful to keep him well removed from the rail. He also postioned him right off two dueling leaders and didn't realy ask him to make the lead, the horse did so willingly. Were the fractions fast? Yes. But the Songster who had been showing up to the races this year certainly wasn't the one who showed up yesterday. he was obviously beaten at the top of the lane when a wilted el nino came back at him. Prado rode the horse exactly as you want a guy to ride a horse. Now, the horse was obviously short. That happens. To say how ready he was means the trainer was either lying or had misjudged his fitness. I believe very strongly that the trainer will use being short as an excuse at some point before his next race. Which means he either lied or was incompetent in asessing his horses' fitness.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry, but I have a significantly different take on Songster, and said as much at Siro's yesterday morning. Yeah, I figured he would probably win yesterday, but only because the field was weak, but I still used an all in that race in my ( losing ) Pick-4 play. Simply put, I thought he was all dressed up with nowhere to go, and his previous two races were FAR from spectacular and merely the result of perfect trips ( coupled with Toomuchbling's bad one ). As a horseplayer, I am very careful about relying heavily on overbet favorites who are nowhere near as good as their undeserved reputations. There was little question in my mind that Songster fit that bill.

The idea that someone could watch that race, see the obvious premature move that Prado made, and then go on a tirade ( calling the trainer " incompetent " and a " dwarf " among other things ) and blame him for somehow disingenously running a " short " horse, all the while proclaiming himself to be some sort of respected person in the sport is as incredible to me as it is insulting in general. The simple truth is that if this horse was truly worth his odds he would have won in spite of the mediocre ride and he still would have won if in fact he was " short ", something I HIGHLY doubt. As I said before, I think he ran as well as he did in either of his last two races.

The person who should be mad, and unlike the author of this thread he is most likely blaming only himself, is Allen Jerkens, who almost certainly would have won the Amsterdam with Saint Damon had he run yesterday instead of Sunday. Or, perhaps, you think he is screaming something akin to " if I had only known that " expletive deleted " Albertrani was going to lie and run a short horse I would have scratched Sunday ".

And I find it beyond incredible that anyone who claims to be an expert could say that the horse ran as well yesterday as he did in his prior races. I have no knowledge of his sheet numbers or Beyer from yesterday's race but its 1-9 that he takes a significant drop in figs on Rags, Thoro graph, and Beyer. To make it sound like he ran his typical race and simply got beaten to me is as far fetched as the tampa bay Devil rays winning the World Series this year.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The horse he ra yesterday was an embarassment. He was DEAD SHORT and Prado rode him just fine. Sat off the duel in the best part of the racetrack and made his move in a typical spot. That horse absolutely layed over the field and to have him be so short and weaving about was a disgrace. Hes a bad trainer, plain and simple. Tell me all about his great successes other than Bernadini, Im still waiting to hear all about them. He will screw him up just like she screwed up yesterday.

Aside from Deputy Glitters, can't say. Don't disagree with you... off to Ft Meyers....

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Aside from Deputy Glitters, can't say. Don't disagree with you... off to Ft Meyers....

Oh yeah hes done a splendid job with him(rolling eyes to the tenth power)

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The horse he ra yesterday was an embarassment. He was DEAD SHORT and Prado rode him just fine. Sat off the duel in the best part of the racetrack and made his move in a typical spot. That horse absolutely layed over the field and to have him be so short and weaving about was a disgrace. Hes a bad trainer, plain and simple. Tell me all about his great successes other than Bernadini, Im still waiting to hear all about them. He will screw him up just like she screwed up yesterday.

Artax wasnt too shabby.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes a bald little dwarf and hes also incompetent. Hes been very lucky to be blessed with a horse like Bernadini but I will laugh loudly and taunt him and heckle him when he blows him up as I have total faith that he will.

That is uncalled for. His job with Balleto was excellent. She nearly won back to back stakes for him. So he has a first, and two seconds in the last three big races at the most difficult meet in the world. Not too bad.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes a bald little dwarf and hes also incompetent. Hes been very lucky to be blessed with a horse like Bernadini but I will laugh loudly and taunt him and heckle him when he blows him up as I have total faith that he will.

Do you think about these kind of comments before you post them? You defend trainers who improve horses in remarkable ways and lambaste other posters who dare to question how these improvements occur and then call Albertrani a " bald little dwarf " ( he isn't little....I'm little...I should know ). You think he's incompetent....fine you're entitled to your opinion...but so are the rest of us who wonder abou some of the rapid improvements coming out of the barns you defend vociferously.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Do you think about these kind of comments before you post them? You defend trainers who improve horses in remarkable ways and lambaste other posters who dare to question how these improvements occur and then call Albertrani a " bald little dwarf " ( he isn't little....I'm little...I should know ). You think he's incompetent....fine you're entitled to your opinion...but so are the rest of us who wonder abou some of the rapid improvements coming out of the barns you defend vociferously.

He couldnt shine Pletcher's or Dutrow's shoes and what if I told you that people should be able to take a trainer at his word about a horse's fitnhess level(front page DRF). Then you hear someone say that maybe in private he knew he was short. Its fraud upon bettors as much as a guy who cheats to win.