Majestic Warrior

[blackthroatedwind]

Thanks for answering BBB. Appreciate your time.

BTW

Majestic Warrior is by A P Indy and inbred to both Secretariat and Buckpasser three of the preemininent stamina influences in the stud book. Horses get their class from their dams and generally emulate their sire with regards to surface, style and distance and precocity.

Predicting that MW is a sprinter is an opinion based on flawed logic.

The third dam was a router, the second dam won the Alciabades. Dream Supreme won three graded stakes at seven furlongs.

You should get a book or two on pedigree, it is an egregious hole in your game. BBB

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

BTW

Majestic Warrior is by A P Indy and inbred to both Secretariat and Buckpasser three of the preemininent stamina influences in the stud book. Horses get their class from their dams and generally emulate their sire with regards to surface, style and distance and precocity.Predicting that MW is a sprinter is an opinion based on flawed logic.

The third dam was a router, the second dam won the Alciabades. Dream Supreme won three graded stakes at seven furlongs.

You should get a book or two on pedigree, it is an egregious hole in your game. BBB

so majestic warrior has already shown he isn't a typical ap indy--having won the hopeful. for the most part, ap indys are expected to blossom later in their careers, with patience being a key ingredient in their development.

also, if you're trying to suggest that dream supreme would provide a stamina influence, how does the statement that she won three times at 7f bolster that argument?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

BTW

Majestic Warrior is by A P Indy and inbred to both Secretariat and Buckpasser three of the preemininent stamina influences in the stud book. Horses get their class from their dams and generally emulate their sire with regards to surface, style and distance and precocity.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I had always heard that the opposite was true, and that the dam is typically more important in determining stamina.
Either way, I don't think we have seen enough from this horse to determine what his ideal distance might be.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Perhaps I am wrong, but I had always heard that the opposite was true, and that the dam is typically more important in determining stamina.
Either way, I don't think we have seen enough from this horse to determine what his ideal distance might be.

that's what i have always seen as well-speed from the sire, stamina from the dam.

i agree with your last sentence.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

BTW

Majestic Warrior is by A P Indy and inbred to both Secretariat and Buckpasser three of the preemininent stamina influences in the stud book. Horses get their class from their dams and generally emulate their sire with regards to surface, style and distance and precocity.

Predicting that MW is a sprinter is an opinion based on flawed logic.

The third dam was a router, the second dam won the Alciabades. Dream Supreme won three graded stakes at seven furlongs.

You should get a book or two on pedigree, it is an egregious hole in your game. BBB

I don't know that I would describe it as an " egregious " hole in my game, as unlike you I actually win despite my mediocre understanding of pedigree, but I certainly don't pretend to be an expert, also unlike you.

However, my good friend Tony Cobitz is an expert, and so I have turned to him on this important issue. In a nutshell.....he agrees with you from a pedigree standpoint and says that physically Majestic Warrior does not look like a sprinter. While his running style may prove a problem, as well as ten furlongs, he certainly feels this horse should get 9 furlongs.

Pardon me for going above you, but Tony has proven his worth at the racetrack for many years, to both myself and others, while I am still waiting, and hoping, for you to do that here. I haven't given up hope.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't know that I would describe it as an " egregious " hole in my game, as unlike you I actually win despite my mediocre understanding of pedigree, but I certainly don't pretend to be an expert, also unlike you.

However, my good friend Tony Cobitz is an expert, and so I have turned to him on this important issue. In a nutshell.....he agrees with you from a pedigree standpoint and says that physically Majestic Warrior does not look like a sprinter. While his running style may prove a problem, as well as ten furlongs, he certainly feels this horse should get 9 furlongs.

Pardon me for going above you, but Tony has proven his worth at the racetrack for many years, to both myself and others, while I am still waiting, and hoping, for you to do that here. I haven't given up hope.

I remember playing cards in Ann Arbor many years ago with Tony Cobitz. I think we shared a ride or two to DRC or Hazel too. Nice guy. LAst I remembered of him was seeing him on the Arlington in-house show about 20 years ago. Glad he did well.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I remember playing cards in Ann Arbor many years ago with Tony Cobitz. I think we shared a ride or two to DRC or Hazel too. Nice guy. LAst I remembered of him was seeing him on the Arlington in-house show about 20 years ago. Glad he did well.

He also did the Gulfstream in-house and evening replays back in the early 90's.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

He also did the Gulfstream in-house and evening replays back in the early 90's.

Calder, too, and maybe Arlington.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I remember playing cards in Ann Arbor many years ago with Tony Cobitz. I think we shared a ride or two to DRC or Hazel too. Nice guy. LAst I remembered of him was seeing him on the Arlington in-house show about 20 years ago. Glad he did well.

Tony's great. He did the BC " Playing to Win " show with me.

I'm pretty harsh on people's opinions at the racetrack but I can honestly say that there are very few who's opinions I respect as much as Tony. Not only has he given me a boatload of winners over the years but he doesn't approach things from the normal perspectives and he constantly teaches me things I may well not have understood in the past. He's a good friend and a brilliant student of the game. He has my highest respect.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't know that I would describe it as an " egregious " hole in my game, as unlike you I actually win despite my mediocre understanding of pedigree, but I certainly don't pretend to be an expert, also unlike you.

However, my good friend Tony Cobitz is an expert, and so I have turned to him on this important issue. In a nutshell.....he agrees with you from a pedigree standpoint and says that physically Majestic Warrior does not look like a sprinter. While his running style may prove a problem, as well as ten furlongs, he certainly feels this horse should get 9 furlongs.

Pardon me for going above you, but Tony has proven his worth at the racetrack for many years, to both myself and others, while I am still waiting, and hoping, for you to do that here. I haven't given up hope.

You know a lot more about pedigree's them BBB....I think it's always encouraging when a colt outruns his pedigree. An Indy winning early and short is encouraging no matter who the dam is..But that isn't to say he won't turn out actually what you guys think he will be.

Stalker: 1: someone who walks with long stiff strides. 2: someone who stalks game. 3: someone who prowls or sneaks about; usually with unlawful intentions

Majestic Warrior was entered in Saturday's Louisiana Derby drawing the nine hole with Gomez named. The son of A.P. Indy completed his major preparation with a half mile at Payson Park Sunday morning.

Reading between the lines, perhaps with blurred vision, the work "looks" very good, if not outstanding. The time given was 48.40 and it was a co-bullet with about a dozen or so working that distance. Only one other worker broke 50 seconds and a black type work is generally very good.

A more in depth analysis that calls for conclusion, and maybe an upgrade to outstanding is within reason. MW has been working steadily and a little longer each work with his last work 2/23 going six panels. Yesterday's half matches up with stablemate Duke Of Pearl and that one is entered also eligible later in the week. "Duke" is bred in the purple ( a half to Vision and Verse et. al.) and is quick in the mornings. Additionally "Duke" was entered blinkers ON and trainers usually work their horses in blinkers before running them in that equipment change as most jurisdictions require starter approval. Sophomore colts, especially those by Unbridled's Song can lay down some swift splits, first time hood and this work could be spot on.

By any measure MW faces a tough task Saturday with Pyro and Tale Of Ekati, two of a half dozen or so that can win the roses. Nevertheless in a year where several "big name" contenders have counterfeit ten panel pedigrees ( War Pass, El Gato Malo, etc.) MW remains, at least for now, one of the ones. BBB

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

Majestic Warrior was entered in Saturday's Louisiana Derby drawing the nine hole with Gomez named. The son of A.P. Indy completed his major preparation with a half mile at Payson Park Sunday morning.

Reading between the lines, perhaps with blurred vision, the work "looks" very good, if not outstanding. The time given was 48.40 and it was a co-bullet with about a dozen or so working that distance. Only one other worker broke 50 seconds and a black type work is generally very good.

A more in depth analysis that calls for conclusion, and maybe an upgrade to outstanding is within reason. MW has been working steadily and a little longer each work with his last work 2/23 going six panels. Yesterday's half matches up with stablemate Duke Of Pearl and that one is entered also eligible later in the week. "Duke" is bred in the purple ( a half to Vision and Verse et. al.) and is quick in the mornings. Additionally "Duke" was entered blinkers ON and trainers usually work their horses in blinkers before running them in that equipment change as most jurisdictions require starter approval. Sophomore colts, especially those by Unbridled's Song can lay down some swift splits, first time hood and this work could be spot on.

By any measure MW faces a tough task Saturday with Pyro and Tale Of Ekati, two of a half dozen or so that can win the roses. Nevertheless in a year where several "big name" contenders have counterfeit ten panel pedigrees ( War Pass, El Gato Malo, etc.) MW remains, at least for now, one of the ones. BBB

Good analysis. Do you know that a good number of works at Payson, PBD and Palm Meadows are clocked and reported by trainers or their staff? Not that it matters much but if you drill down as hard as you seem to do on works, it may be something to think about. Aside from frequency and spacing, it's pretty impossible to glean much from works unless you see them yourself and are an outstanding judge of physical appearance.

[blackthroatedwind]

I thought only one horse can win the Derby ( though I hadn't accounted for a dead heat ).

Has there ever been a dead heat among a half dozen ( or so ) horses?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

BTW

Majestic Warrior is by A P Indy and inbred to both Secretariat and Buckpasser three of the preemininent stamina influences in the stud book. Horses get their class from their dams and generally emulate their sire with regards to surface, style and distance and precocity.

Predicting that MW is a sprinter is an opinion based on flawed logic.

The third dam was a router, the second dam won the Alciabades. Dream Supreme won three graded stakes at seven furlongs.

You should get a book or two on pedigree, it is an egregious hole in your game. BBB

MW may win the Derby and I like the colts chances. But your logic is pretty weak and you are tangling with folks who make a living knowing about horses.

I question theorically speaking, If we breed Personal Ensign to The Green Monkey you think TGM will have more influence on her offspring then she would have?

IMO you could bred Hasili to a frog and get a grade 3 winner!