Winning Colors vs. Rags to Riches

[azerica]

Winning Colors. She beat really good horses and went up against the boys on more than one occassion. And my God that '88 BC, that was two great hearts wanting the win. After all these years folks still talk about Winning Colors while I'm afraid that Rags might not get mentioned even 5 years from now unless she could come back in her 4YO season and be better than last year.

[Indian Charlie]

i'm going to go against the grain (and a very popular idea here) and say that since winning colors was a shell of her former self after the preakness, that her bc loss to PE diminishes PE somewhat.

or maybe i'm not saying that right. what i'm trying to say is that even a ruined WC, far from her best, still almost beat PE. a perfectly healthy and sound WC romps in that race.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

i'm going to go against the grain (and a very popular idea here) and say that since winning colors was a shell of her former self after the preakness, that her bc loss to PE diminishes PE somewhat.

or maybe i'm not saying that right. what i'm trying to say is that even a ruined WC, far from her best, still almost beat PE. a perfectly healthy and sound WC romps in that race.

I see your point, but I would like to add a muddling thought to it---Personal Ensign was running on a track she disliked and still overcame it, so it might be thought that both horses were compromised and the result may have been the same had both had their optimum conditions satisfied and were both at their respective peaks ... I do give the edge to Winning Colors over Rags to Riches however, but I believe the BCD result would have remained unchanged .... IMO, the race flattered them both, and a tip of the hat to Goodbye Halo as aforementioned ...
It is also possible that Winning Colors grandfathered herself back to her glory days on that occassion, and Personal Ensign was tailing off ... I do not believe in any way a finish like that diminishes anything ...
As far as a perfectly healthy Winning Colors romping, do not see that either ... Personal Ensign was determined to stay perfect ... And she did ...

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

i'm going to go against the grain (and a very popular idea here) and say that since winning colors was a shell of her former self after the preakness, that her bc loss to PE diminishes PE somewhat.

or maybe i'm not saying that right. what i'm trying to say is that even a ruined WC, far from her best, still almost beat PE. a perfectly healthy and sound WC romps in that race.

I see what you are saying here but that would mean that you have to believe that Winning Colors was only a shell of her former self after the Preakness. I don't believe that to be anywhere close to true. For the Belmont, she obviously was worn out but after getting some time off, she came back better than ever and I think her races in the Maskette and BC Distaff were as good as her efforts in the spring.

Prudery makes the point that the track conditions in the BC were not to Personal Ensign's liking and that may have comprimised her some. I don't know if that's true or not. PE ran a winning race in the Whitney on a sloppy track when she beat Gulch and there is no way to actually know how much a horse likes or dislikes a track.

My opinion is not that PE defeated a lesser version of WC but a better one. And as impressive as the BC win was, I was even more impressed by the Maskette win because it came at a shorter distance that should have been even more advantageous to WC.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I see what you are saying here but that would mean that you have to believe that Winning Colors was only a shell of her former self after the Preakness. I don't believe that to be anywhere close to true. For the Belmont, she obviously was worn out but after getting some time off, she came back better than ever and I think her races in the Maskette and BC Distaff were as good as her efforts in the spring.

Prudery makes the point that the track conditions in the BC were not to Personal Ensign's liking and that may have comprimised her some. I don't know if that's true or not. PE ran a winning race in the Whitney on a sloppy track when she beat Gulch and there is no way to actually know how much a horse likes or dislikes a track.

My opinion is not that PE defeated a lesser version of WC but a better one. And as impressive as the BC win was, I was even more impressed by the Maskette win because it came at a shorter distance that should have been even more advantageous to WC.

I believe Randy Romero said she did not handle the track at all for the BCD---although that may have been jockeyspeak, but I do think she rallied later and more laboringly than she usually did ... Do not recall if the Whitney was a fast or a slow sloppy track---as you know all slop is not equal ... Forego was not a mudder horse --and was scratched for mud, but was successful on a muddy track that he got traction on ... Sloppy, muddy, fast wet, slow wet---minutae--but it can make a difference ...
Agree about the Maskette ...

[Buffymommy]

As of today, Winning Colors is MUCH more accomplished of a race horse. R2R needs to show me more before I can put her up there with the likes of WC.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by prudery

Littlemisslittlemisscan'tbewrong

The long overdue Spin Doctors reference has basically cemented this thread as TOY for 2008.

[Indian Charlie]

hey roses, do you ever feel the need to get the last word in?

[horseofcourse]

Winning Colors is better. I think it's harder winning the Derby than Belmont. IN the Derby you have every single horse pointing to it as their goal. I think in the Belmont she was just fresher than the two good horses she beat (Curlin and Hard Spun.) I consider Winning Colors beating Forty Niner and Risen Star in the Derby more impressive. Her SA Derby was self explanatory and she was a jump or two from beating one of the best race mares ever in Personal Ensign in the Distaff. Rags winning the Belmont is a great accomplishment, I'll always consider the Derby a "higher" quality win.

[miraja2]

The ONE thing that I will agree with KYRM on in this thread is that you don't have to have been alive at the time to do this type of comparison.
I wasn't around to see Citation or Johnny Unitas compete, but I think I am still qualified to say that they were better than Cause to Believe and Rex Grossman respectively.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by miraja2

The ONE thing that I will agree with KYRM on in this thread is that you don't have to have been alive at the time to do this type of comparison.
I wasn't around to see Citation or Johnny Unitas compete, but I think I am still qualified to say that they were better than Cause to Believe and Rex Grossman respectively.

For a second there, I thought you were going to say that Citation would have kicked Johnny Unitas's butt.

--Dunbar