Israel suspending air bombing

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Such as Eisenhower, kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, et al?

We have propped up highly tyrannical governments in the past. Made some horrible mistakes as long as countries gave us what we needed or just plain would bend to our will. We have learned the hard way that does not work.

Everyone of those president you just mentioned played an important role in constantly badgering the largest country in the world to clean up their act. Constantly, with no gain whatsoever on our part other than getting individuals released because of religious or political persecution. IN fact it is to our detriment to keep badgering China. But we do it anyway.

Name a country with more people than China that we have done the opposite.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We have propped up highly tyrannical governments in the past. Made some horrible mistakes as long as countries gave us what we needed or just plain would bend to our will. We have learned the hard way that does not work.

Everyone of those president you just mentioned played an important role in constantly badgering the largest country in the world to clean up their act. Constantly, with no gain whatsoever on our part other than getting individuals released because of religious or political persecution. IN fact it is to our detriment to keep badgering China. But we do it anyway.

Name a country with more people than China that we have done the opposite.

Sorry pal. You seem like an intelligent guy but this is a pretty dumb question. Think about it.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Sorry pal. You seem like an intelligent guy but this is a pretty dumb question. Think about it.

Actually I really dont need to. You got the point.

We are asking the most populated country in the world to clean up their act to our detriment. A country that constantly thwarts us in the UN and in many other ways, just to get a few political and religious prisoners released. I mean come on guy, what the hell good does it do us to say lay off the people of Nepal?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Actually I really dont need to. You got the point.

We are asking the most populated country in the world to clean up their act to our detriment. A country that constantly thwarts us in the UN and in many other ways, just to get a few political and religious prisoners released. I mean come on guy, what the hell good does it do us to say lay off the people of Nepal?

and what good would it do us to keep our mouths shut? LOL

We have spent far more money in Africa than any other country in the World. We dumped some Marines in the middle of Somalia just to break up a horrific tribal war, and got them killed. We have done a hell of a lot of altruistic things. I am not naive enough to think everything is done this way. But I damn sure am not as totally cynical as you.

So why did we drop Marines in Somalia, and why do we keep bugging China while losing huge bucks in trade with them because of it?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We have spent far more money in Africa than any other country in the World. We dumped some Marines in the middle of Somalia just to break up a horrific tribal war, and got them killed. We have done a hell of a lot of altruistic things. I am not naive enough to think everything is done this way. But I damn sure am not as totally cynical as you.

So why did we drop Marines in Somalia, and why do we keep bugging China while losing huge bucks in trade with them because of it?

And why did we then abandon the somalians? nothing to gain maybe?

And why did we support Idi Amin or Mobutu or the countless others?

And why havent we been tougher with China on trade if we have such a problem with their human rights practices? Why were we much more lenient in our attitude toward China back when their human rights policies were measurably worse? Could it be because we needed them against the big, bad USSR?????

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And why did we then abandon the somalians? nothing to gain maybe?

And why did we support Idi Amin or Mobutu or the countless others?

And why havent we been tougher with China on trade if we have such a problem with their human rights practices? Why were we much more lenient in our attitude toward China back when their human rights policies were measurably worse? Could it be because we needed them against the big, bad USSR?????

We have and will continue to do the wrong thing. We strive to do it right. We have backed some hideous killers you are correct.

So why did we drop Marines in Somalia to BEGIN with? and that is not the reason we keep pestering China. The USSR is gone. So why dont we just lay off and get that trade that other countries step in for?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We have and will continue to do the wrong thing. We strive to do it right. We have backed some hideous killers you are correct.

So why did we drop Marines in Somalia to BEGIN with? and that is not the reason we keep pestering China. The USSR is gone. So why dont we just lay off and get that trade that other countries step in for?

17.7 billion dollar trade deficit??????????????????????????

Yes, it seems that we are indeed being REALLY tough on China.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We have and will continue to do the wrong thing. We strive to do it right. We have backed some hideous killers you are correct.

So why did we drop Marines in Somalia to BEGIN with? and that is not the reason we keep pestering China. The USSR is gone. So why dont we just lay off and get that trade that other countries step in for?

Quick history lesson:

The US supported the ousted leader Barre from 1978 until he was overthrown in 2001. We backed him to a tune of 900 million dollars while he killed, raped and pillaged.

In the ensuing Melee', the US wanted to take control of the southern part of the red sea but more importantly the Suez Canal.

The marines were there so that a religious fundamentalist wouldnt take over thus preventing the US from possibly mining for oil to the north.

Maybe you didnt know this.

[dalakhani]

Let me add this-

Much of the criticism i have of our govt does not apply to our people. For the most part, our citizens want to do what is right. I think most of our soldiers bravely fight for honor, duty and love of country. I think they believe that if they die that they are dying for a just cause. I have nothing but respect for them.

I am proud to be an American. I am just not proud of the current administration.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Let me add this-

Much of the criticism i have of our govt does not apply to our people. For the most part, our citizens want to do what is right. I think most of our soldiers bravely fight for honor, duty and love of country. I think they believe that if they die that they are dying for a just cause. I have nothing but respect for them.

I am proud to be an American. I am just not proud of the current administration.

Shhheeeeiott....you coulda said that in the first place!!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We have spent far more money in Africa than any other country in the World. We dumped some Marines in the middle of Somalia just to break up a horrific tribal war, and got them killed. We have done a hell of a lot of altruistic things. I am not naive enough to think everything is done this way. But I damn sure am not as totally cynical as you.

So why did we drop Marines in Somalia, and why do we keep bugging China while losing huge bucks in trade with them because of it?

Excuse me for butting in Pat.
I think you and dala have a nice debate going.
But if we're going to talk about China now, and leave out Tibet...
oh nevermind.
Continue to discourse about Somalia.
Somehow that connects with Israel and Lebanon.
I'm very surprised that nobody brought up Grenada or Panama.
Chile or Libya anyone?

Back to my question, Pat....
Just suppose that somehow you got yourself elected to be president of the USA...
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Go with what Israel is doing...bomb the sh-t out of Lebanon at all costs to "get" Hezzbollah...and incur the negitive fall out from many Arab allies,
or hope for a cease fire and bring in the UN and/or NATO?

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Excuse me for butting in Pat.
I think you and dala have a nice debate going.
But if we're going to talk about China now, and leave out Tibet...
oh nevermind.
Continue to discourse about Somalia.
Somehow that connects with Israel and Lebanon.
I'm very surprised that nobody brought up Grenada or Panama.
Chile or Libya anyone?

Back to my question, Pat....
Just suppose that somehow you got yourself elected to be president of the USA...
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Go with what Israel is doing...bomb the sh-t out of Lebanon at all costs to "get" Hezzbollah...and incur the negitive fall out from many Arab allies,
or hope for a cease fire and bring in the UN and/or NATO?

I would continue to ask for the UN resolution of the total disarming of Hezbollah. I would ask Israel to try harder to miss civilians. My problem is that I wonder how many of the people they have hit have armed, or are armed Hezbollah. Obviously the children killed and hurt is absolutely chilling.

I really dont know what I would do. Its a very difficult situation. I guarantee one thing. If Israel is actually ever left alone, the will not harm anyone. And if commerce between the Israelis and the Arab neighbors ever takes place on a large scale, wonders can happen. See Northern Ireland. I understand the power of putting people to work and allowing them to leave peacefully while taking care of the family. Northern Ireland has become a shining example that there is still some hope.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would continue to ask for the UN resolution of the total disarming of Hezbollah. I would ask Israel to try harder to miss civilians. My problem is that I wonder how many of the people they have hit have armed, or are armed Hezbollah. Obviously the children killed and hurt is absolutely chilling.

I really dont know what I would do. Its a very difficult situation. I guarantee one thing. If Israel is actually ever left alone, the will not harm anyone. And if commerce between the Israelis and the Arab neighbors ever takes place on a large scale, wonders can happen. See Northern Ireland. I understand the power of putting people to work and allowing them to leave peacefully while taking care of the family. Northern Ireland has become a shining example that there is still some hope.

Pat,
Northern Ireland is a very good example, and so would be Japan, or Germany for that matter.
I take your point that trade can only flourish in mutally agreed (peaceful) circumstances.
On that I agree.
Unfortunately, as conditions apply to Israel and those that would wish to trade with her, each day that the destruction continues, the fewer potential trading partners will play.
Israel has done a great deal to generate animosity. The US has gone along for a very long time...
and, as an aside, I DO like Israel (but not current actions).
What does Israel export besides citrus, olive oil, and produce?
I know she imports a lot of armaments financed and supplied by the US.
Therein the vulnerability to the US to our "allies".

The old Arab saying goes something like this, "If you're friends with my enemy, you are also my enemy."

It will take many years for Israel to restore "trust relationships" with potential trading partners.
I hope they start on that path sooner than later.