Kidd to Mavs

[King Glorious]

Ewing is deserving of his spot in the top 50, IMO. I don't think he was better overall than Olajuwon or Robinson though. I don't think he was better defensively either. I do think it's possible that he was overrated a bit though because he played in NY. That happens with a lot of players. I think that had Robinson or Olajuwon played there, they would have been seen as near Gods. Ewing held his own against those guys and is certainly in the conversation but I put him just a bit short.

I absolutely think that rebounds are a defensive statistic. Any coach would agree. And I understand that the rebound numbers and blocked shots don't define how great a defender is. But you would think that if you are going to declare that a guy was the dominant defensive center of his era, there has to be something to back that up besides your opinion. All factual evidence (blocks, rebounds, times named all-defense, and winning defensive player of the year) put him below those three guys I named. I'd even place two-time defensive player of the year Alonzo Mourning over him.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I absolutely think that rebounds are a defensive statistic. Any coach would agree. And I understand that the rebound numbers and blocked shots don't define how great a defender is. But you would think that if you are going to declare that a guy was the dominant defensive center of his era, there has to be something to back that up besides your opinion. All factual evidence (blocks, rebounds, times named all-defense, and winning defensive player of the year) put him below those three guys I named. I'd even place two-time defensive player of the year Alonzo Mourning over him.

I was hoping you would say that. Defensive rebounds are valid not total rebounds as you show. The fact is that Ewing was by far the best defensive rebounder of the era by evidenced of his defensive rebound %. DR% is the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor. During the 1990's Ewing was in the top 5 every year except the year he DNQ because he only played 26 games. Hakeem was in the top 5 one time when he was a rookie and as his offense developed his defensive rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. Robinson was never better than 9th and a few years didnt make the top 20. And keep in mind that Ewing played with Oakley for some of that period when Oakley was strictly a rebounder and surely took away opportunities from Ewing.

Defensive awards and teams are nothing but popularity contests much like the Gold Gloves in baseball.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I was hoping you would say that. Defensive rebounds are valid not total rebounds as you show. The fact is that Ewing was by far the best defensive rebounder of the era by evidenced of his defensive rebound %. DR% is the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor. During the 1990's Ewing was in the top 5 every year except the year he DNQ because he only played 26 games. Hakeem was in the top 5 one time when he was a rookie and as his offense developed his defensive rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. Robinson was never better than 9th and a few years didnt make the top 20. And keep in mind that Ewing played with Oakley for some of that period when Oakley was strictly a rebounder and surely took away opportunities from Ewing.

Defensive awards and teams are nothing but popularity contests much like the Gold Gloves in baseball.

Still over their careers the difference is less than 1% which can easily be accounted for by having a good rebounding guard like Drexler as a teammate. Ewing had Oakley but Olajuwon also played part of his career with Barkley who stole tons of rebounds. Personally I think the best statistic would be percent of offensive rebounds that the person you are responsible for gets. If Ewing had a perfect boxout everytime and someone else on his team grabbed the rebound then that is far more valuable than what percentage he actually comes up with the rebound. Same with Olajuwon. Unfortunately no such statistic exists that I know of.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Still over their careers the difference is less than 1% which can easily be accounted for by having a good rebounding guard like Drexler as a teammate. Ewing had Oakley but Olajuwon also played part of his career with Barkley who stole tons of rebounds. Personally I think the best statistic would be percent of offensive rebounds that the person you are responsible for gets. If Ewing had a perfect boxout everytime and someone else on his team grabbed the rebound then that is far more valuable than what percentage he actually comes up with the rebound. Same with Olajuwon. Unfortunately no such statistic exists that I know of.

Olajumon played with Barkley for like ten minutes. Please.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Olajumon played with Barkley for like ten minutes. Please.

Actually four seasons and those four seasons are the ones that pull his DRB% down significantly.

[The Bid]

Where does Gheorghe Muresan fit into all of this?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Where does Gheorghe Muresan fit into all of this?

In 95-96 he had a defensive rebound percentage of 24.7%, the same as Ewing's career average.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Where does Gheorghe Muresan fit into all of this?

Much better actor than all mentioned

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Actually four seasons and those four seasons are the ones that pull his DRB% down significantly.

This is not a really accurate post. True, Barkley did play with Olajuwon for four seasons. The last season though, Barkley only played 20 games so I wouldn't really count that season.

1997-53 games
1998-68 games (only started 41)
1999-42 games (50 game season because of strike)
2000-20 games

How much of an effect did Barkley have on Olajuwon's defense rebounding numbers? Obviously he had some but I don't think it's significant like you claim. Olajuwon ranked #1 in the league in DR% in 1989 and in 1990. He fell to #2 in 1991. He fell to #6 in 1992. Down to #8 in 1993. He was out of the top 10 in 1994 and was #10 in 1995. This goes along with what Cannon says. As Hakeem's offensive game grew, his defensive game slid. He was dropping further and further down the list in this stat category before Barkley even got there.

Eastern regional bias raises its head.

Honestly, if Robinson, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Moses Malone, Walton (when healthy, not as a Celtic) played in NY... Gods. They would be considered Gods. Its regional prejudice which is understanable. Ewing was just flat out not at the level of these other players as a pro. No way. No how.

If Ewing had not played at Georgetown and done so well as a Collegian, he would not be thought of as highly. It is a given Ewing played hard every night, unlike Robinson. He should be admired for this. But talent wise... no way. No way. So I find it laughable.

This is coming from the same idiot that prounounced that Kevin Durant was not a great athlete. That he is/was a skinny kid who has a great fundamental offensive game.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I was hoping you would say that. Defensive rebounds are valid not total rebounds as you show. The fact is that Ewing was by far the best defensive rebounder of the era by evidenced of his defensive rebound %. DR% is the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor. During the 1990's Ewing was in the top 5 every year except the year he DNQ because he only played 26 games. Hakeem was in the top 5 one time when he was a rookie and as his offense developed his defensive rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. Robinson was never better than 9th and a few years didnt make the top 20. And keep in mind that Ewing played with Oakley for some of that period when Oakley was strictly a rebounder and surely took away opportunities from Ewing.

Defensive awards and teams are nothing but popularity contests much like the Gold Gloves in baseball.

Good argument there. I knew that and figured you would be sharp enough to bring this point out. As far as defensive rebounding % goes:

Times in the top five (led league)
Ewing-9 (1)
Olajuwon-3 (2)
Robinson-1 (0)
Mutombo-8 (2)

Also a good point about Oakley being there. That hurt his rebounding numbers but it also helped him in some ways. Oakley being there freed up Ewing to put more focus on his offense. Perhaps if he had to concentrate a little more on defense, his offensive production suffers a little. Also, Oakley often defended the opponent's top post players. Sort of like how Oberto does in SA now and allows Duncan to be a little more free and not pick up fouls.