Kidd to Mavs

So that short list doesn't make him one of the greatest of all time?
Duncan is a power forward.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

So that short list doesn't make him one of the greatest of all time?
Duncan is a power forward.

Russell
Chamberlain
Jabbar
Walton
ONeill
Mikan (really too old to do but relative to others)
above in no order. So Ewing might make the top 10.
If Yao holds up, Howard... he moves further down.
I just think Ewing's college career is overlapped
with his pro career. He might be 2nd or third best
college center of all time. Behind Jabbar and possibly
Walton.


The NBA listed him as a Center until
the Spurs protested that Yao would
get all the votes and Duncan would
not get a start.
He is a Center. Oberto is a power forward.
Duncan played Center when Robinson was
really the power forward.

I guess its a matter of how you view the position.
If you mention Barkely, Karl Malone, as some of the
best power forwards, then you have to call Duncan
a Center. Duncan plays closer to the basket and posts
up more than any 7 foot power forward ever. So I call him
a Center.

Twas fun.
I sleep.

[King Glorious]

Ewing is deserving of his spot in the top 50, IMO. I don't think he was better overall than Olajuwon or Robinson though. I don't think he was better defensively either. I do think it's possible that he was overrated a bit though because he played in NY. That happens with a lot of players. I think that had Robinson or Olajuwon played there, they would have been seen as near Gods. Ewing held his own against those guys and is certainly in the conversation but I put him just a bit short.

I absolutely think that rebounds are a defensive statistic. Any coach would agree. And I understand that the rebound numbers and blocked shots don't define how great a defender is. But you would think that if you are going to declare that a guy was the dominant defensive center of his era, there has to be something to back that up besides your opinion. All factual evidence (blocks, rebounds, times named all-defense, and winning defensive player of the year) put him below those three guys I named. I'd even place two-time defensive player of the year Alonzo Mourning over him.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I absolutely think that rebounds are a defensive statistic. Any coach would agree. And I understand that the rebound numbers and blocked shots don't define how great a defender is. But you would think that if you are going to declare that a guy was the dominant defensive center of his era, there has to be something to back that up besides your opinion. All factual evidence (blocks, rebounds, times named all-defense, and winning defensive player of the year) put him below those three guys I named. I'd even place two-time defensive player of the year Alonzo Mourning over him.

I was hoping you would say that. Defensive rebounds are valid not total rebounds as you show. The fact is that Ewing was by far the best defensive rebounder of the era by evidenced of his defensive rebound %. DR% is the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor. During the 1990's Ewing was in the top 5 every year except the year he DNQ because he only played 26 games. Hakeem was in the top 5 one time when he was a rookie and as his offense developed his defensive rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. Robinson was never better than 9th and a few years didnt make the top 20. And keep in mind that Ewing played with Oakley for some of that period when Oakley was strictly a rebounder and surely took away opportunities from Ewing.

Defensive awards and teams are nothing but popularity contests much like the Gold Gloves in baseball.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I was hoping you would say that. Defensive rebounds are valid not total rebounds as you show. The fact is that Ewing was by far the best defensive rebounder of the era by evidenced of his defensive rebound %. DR% is the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor. During the 1990's Ewing was in the top 5 every year except the year he DNQ because he only played 26 games. Hakeem was in the top 5 one time when he was a rookie and as his offense developed his defensive rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. Robinson was never better than 9th and a few years didnt make the top 20. And keep in mind that Ewing played with Oakley for some of that period when Oakley was strictly a rebounder and surely took away opportunities from Ewing.

Defensive awards and teams are nothing but popularity contests much like the Gold Gloves in baseball.

Still over their careers the difference is less than 1% which can easily be accounted for by having a good rebounding guard like Drexler as a teammate. Ewing had Oakley but Olajuwon also played part of his career with Barkley who stole tons of rebounds. Personally I think the best statistic would be percent of offensive rebounds that the person you are responsible for gets. If Ewing had a perfect boxout everytime and someone else on his team grabbed the rebound then that is far more valuable than what percentage he actually comes up with the rebound. Same with Olajuwon. Unfortunately no such statistic exists that I know of.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Still over their careers the difference is less than 1% which can easily be accounted for by having a good rebounding guard like Drexler as a teammate. Ewing had Oakley but Olajuwon also played part of his career with Barkley who stole tons of rebounds. Personally I think the best statistic would be percent of offensive rebounds that the person you are responsible for gets. If Ewing had a perfect boxout everytime and someone else on his team grabbed the rebound then that is far more valuable than what percentage he actually comes up with the rebound. Same with Olajuwon. Unfortunately no such statistic exists that I know of.

Olajumon played with Barkley for like ten minutes. Please.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Olajumon played with Barkley for like ten minutes. Please.

Actually four seasons and those four seasons are the ones that pull his DRB% down significantly.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I was hoping you would say that. Defensive rebounds are valid not total rebounds as you show. The fact is that Ewing was by far the best defensive rebounder of the era by evidenced of his defensive rebound %. DR% is the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor. During the 1990's Ewing was in the top 5 every year except the year he DNQ because he only played 26 games. Hakeem was in the top 5 one time when he was a rookie and as his offense developed his defensive rebounding numbers dropped dramatically. Robinson was never better than 9th and a few years didnt make the top 20. And keep in mind that Ewing played with Oakley for some of that period when Oakley was strictly a rebounder and surely took away opportunities from Ewing.

Defensive awards and teams are nothing but popularity contests much like the Gold Gloves in baseball.

Good argument there. I knew that and figured you would be sharp enough to bring this point out. As far as defensive rebounding % goes:

Times in the top five (led league)
Ewing-9 (1)
Olajuwon-3 (2)
Robinson-1 (0)
Mutombo-8 (2)

Also a good point about Oakley being there. That hurt his rebounding numbers but it also helped him in some ways. Oakley being there freed up Ewing to put more focus on his offense. Perhaps if he had to concentrate a little more on defense, his offensive production suffers a little. Also, Oakley often defended the opponent's top post players. Sort of like how Oberto does in SA now and allows Duncan to be a little more free and not pick up fouls.