Now does anyone still believe?...

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by oracle80

And Joel do you still believe that Lady Of venice is the greatest three year old grass filly?

So he was wrong about Lady of Venice and that makes him wrong about Bernardini? I find it funny that the only detractors of Bernardini are fans who can't see past Barbaro (I remember you yourself raved about his Preakness, then backed off); objective racing experts think he's the real deal (and no, it doesn't mean they are comparing him to all-time greats or anything premature like that). I haven't heard one racing writer denigrate this horse because Barbaro broke down in the Preakness or the track came up sloppy (Yeah, cause Bernardini was a sure thing on a kind of track he'd never seen before).......

Originally Posted by Betsy

So he was wrong about Lady of Venice and that makes him wrong about Bernardini? I find it funny that the only detractors of Bernardini are fans who can't see past Barbaro (I remember you yourself raved about his Preakness, then backed off); objective racing experts think he's the real deal (and no, it doesn't mean they are comparing him to all-time greats or anything premature like that). I haven't heard one racing writer denigrate this horse because Barbaro broke down in the Preakness or the track came up sloppy (Yeah, cause Bernardini was a sure thing on a kind of track he'd never seen before).......

I havent backed off him. I think hes a very good horse whose being made to look better by the fact that whats left of this three year old crop isn't very good, to say the least.
If you are gonna pull up old threads and beat your chest, how about pulling up the Scat Daddy is so great and lady of venice are so great threads as well.

Originally Posted by Betsy

So he was wrong about Lady of Venice and that makes him wrong about Bernardini? I find it funny that the only detractors of Bernardini are fans who can't see past Barbaro (I remember you yourself raved about his Preakness, then backed off); objective racing experts think he's the real deal (and no, it doesn't mean they are comparing him to all-time greats or anything premature like that). I haven't heard one racing writer denigrate this horse because Barbaro broke down in the Preakness or the track came up sloppy (Yeah, cause Bernardini was a sure thing on a kind of track he'd never seen before).......

Betsy I don't really care how you see things to be honest. The reason I brought up Lady of venice and Scat Daddy is that they were two examples I felt of horses who ran races that looked better to most people than they did to me. I felt they were very good horses, not great as described by Joel. I went on record this Saturday as saying that Venice was a total tossout before the race.
WIth Bern I think only an idiot would not concede that hes by far the best three year old in training and that hes a very good horse. But I'm reading HOY stuff and a RIDICULOUS comparison to horses like Ghostzapper. I can't stop laughing hard enough at that.
Its not Bern's fault that Barb broke down in that race and that SNS was sore and that Bro got hurt in the gate. His fig was great. Its also not Bern's fault that there is nothing left to beat in the 3YO ranks. But lets face it, before hes worthy of HOY cinch status and Ghostzapper comparisons, hes gotta actually hook up with a real field and win. If you think that running away from Hemingway's Key(I still can't stop laughing about that) is going to be like running away from Invasor or Ghostzapper or Lava Man you have another thing coming. Horses like that arent gonna be defeated with one knockout punch move, that move will. propel you past the three year olds left standing and take you to victory, against horses like Flower Alley or Invasor they arent just gonna let you cruise by and open up. Bern has also never won a stretch duel and never been tested in a case like that.

When I looked at the PP's on Lady of Venice and then said I might take her I thought she would be a price because of the company she had run against so far. The others had faced much tougher. I was wrong as everyone jumped on this horse. I jumped off. I think the track did not help her however.

Originally Posted by pgardn

When I looked at the PP's on Lady of Venice and then said I might take her I thought she would be a price because of the company she had run against so far. The others had faced much tougher. I was wrong as everyone jumped on this horse. I jumped off. I think the track did not help her however.

Well Lady Of Venice had every chance of winning the race. I honestly dont think she got that good of a ride. But she was very game in her defeat. I mean she lost to Angara who is a good turf horse. I think this was a great race for LOV. Shows that she is able to stay with the big girls.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well Lady Of Venice had every chance of winning the race. I honestly dont think she got that good of a ride. But she was very game in her defeat. I mean she lost to Angara who is a good turf horse. I think this was a great race for LOV. Shows that she is able to stay with the big girls.

am i dreaming, or didn't i see david junior will be there as well??

Originally Posted by oracle80

Betsy I don't really care how you see things to be honest. The reason I brought up Lady of venice and Scat Daddy is that they were two examples I felt of horses who ran races that looked better to most people than they did to me. I felt they were very good horses, not great as described by Joel. I went on record this Saturday as saying that Venice was a total tossout before the race.
WIth Bern I think only an idiot would not concede that hes by far the best three year old in training and that hes a very good horse. But I'm reading HOY stuff and a RIDICULOUS comparison to horses like Ghostzapper. I can't stop laughing hard enough at that.
Its not Bern's fault that Barb broke down in that race and that SNS was sore and that Bro got hurt in the gate. His fig was great. Its also not Bern's fault that there is nothing left to beat in the 3YO ranks. But lets face it, before hes worthy of HOY cinch status and Ghostzapper comparisons, hes gotta actually hook up with a real field and win. If you think that running away from Hemingway's Key(I still can't stop laughing about that) is going to be like running away from Invasor or Ghostzapper or Lava Man you have another thing coming. Horses like that arent gonna be defeated with one knockout punch move, that move will. propel you past the three year olds left standing and take you to victory, against horses like Flower Alley or Invasor they arent just gonna let you cruise by and open up. Bern has also never won a stretch duel and never been tested in a case like that.

I think Bernardini has no competition in the 3 year old ranks. In fact, he doesnt have much competition from the older horse division. Invasor, Flower Alley and Lava Man are about it in my opinion. The horse looked good on Saturday but man that was a horrible field, but he won like he should have won. With Electrocutionist in the classic along with Flower Alley and Lava Man and Invasor, I give Bernardini little chance of winning that race. Bernardini will win all the races against 3 year olds but he wont beat the ones above.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think Bernardini has no competition in the 3 year old ranks. In fact, he doesnt have much competition from the older horse division. Invasor, Flower Alley and Lava Man are about it in my opinion. The horse looked good on Saturday but man that was a horrible field, but he won like he should have won. With Electrocutionist in the classic along with Flower Alley and Lava Man and Invasor, I give Bernardini little chance of winning that race. Bernardini will win all the races against 3 year olds but he wont beat the ones above.

I'm not ready to say he can't Euro, not at all. He may very well be the realest of deals. My opinion is that he hasn't beaten or done enough yet to concede that he will, and I have nothing against this horse or his connections or anything like that.
I just think its extremely irrational to declare him HOY and Ghostzapper-like for making a loose lead in the mud against horses like Hemingway's Key. Lets watch him win the Travers(which I have no doubt he will do) and then see how his last prep for the BC against older horses goes. I don't think its gonna be a Jim Dandy like result when he faces older horses.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think Bernardini has no competition in the 3 year old ranks. In fact, he doesnt have much competition from the older horse division. Invasor, Flower Alley and Lava Man are about it in my opinion. The horse looked good on Saturday but man that was a horrible field, but he won like he should have won. With Electrocutionist in the classic along with Flower Alley and Lava Man and Invasor, I give Bernardini little chance of winning that race. Bernardini will win all the races against 3 year olds but he wont beat the ones above.

Bernardini will crush all of those horses. No question about it. He is in a league all by himself. The horse ran a 113 in the Preakness and a 114 in his public workout on Saturday. He is the best in a long long time.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Bernardini will crush all of those horses. No question about it. He is in a league all by himself. The horse ran a 113 in the Preakness and a 114 in his public workout on Saturday. He is the best in a long long time.

Long, long time....say what, like three or four months? What's a long time? Ghostzapper? Pleasantly Perfect?

This kind of superlative talk doesn't really help anybody. Good horse, sure, but come on, best in a long time? Unless long time is how good Like Now looked in that Gotham romp earlier this year, then your version of "long time" is a lot shorter than mine.

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Long, long time....say what, like three or four months? What's a long time? Ghostzapper? Pleasantly Perfect?

This kind of superlative talk doesn't really help anybody. Good horse, sure, but come on, best in a long time? Unless long time is how good Like Now looked in that Turfway romp earlier this year, then your version of "long time" is a lot shorter than mine.

He is better than Ghostzapper and Pleasantly Perfect. You don't throw up back to back beyers like that in effortless races. If his breeding wasn't so good I would question him, but you can't breed a better horse. It is impossible.

Originally Posted by boldruler

He is better than Ghostzapper and Pleasantly Perfect. You don't throw up back to back beyers like that in effortless races. If his breeding wasn't so good I would question him, but you can't breed a better horse. It is impossible.

Beyers again? They are for amateurs Ruler, strictly for novices. Sheets are universally accepted by owners trainers and agents. Beyers are mocked and laughed at.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by boldruler

He is better than Ghostzapper and Pleasantly Perfect. You don't throw up back to back beyers like that in effortless races. If his breeding wasn't so good I would question him, but you can't breed a better horse. It is impossible.

This is the funniest post I've read in a while. Thanks for the comic relief.

When freakin' Bernardini runs a 124 against the best horses on the planet, give me a shout.

Originally Posted by boldruler

He is better than Ghostzapper and Pleasantly Perfect. You don't throw up back to back beyers like that in effortless races. If his breeding wasn't so good I would question him, but you can't breed a better horse. It is impossible.

To hell with the GD breeding. Its what they do on the track.

You are comparing a 3 year old with horses that won multiple GI's against older horses. Thats just plain silly.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Betsy I don't really care how you see things to be honest. The reason I brought up Lady of venice and Scat Daddy is that they were two examples I felt of horses who ran races that looked better to most people than they did to me. I felt they were very good horses, not great as described by Joel. I went on record this Saturday as saying that Venice was a total tossout before the race.
WIth Bern I think only an idiot would not concede that hes by far the best three year old in training and that hes a very good horse. But I'm reading HOY stuff and a RIDICULOUS comparison to horses like Ghostzapper. I can't stop laughing hard enough at that.
Its not Bern's fault that Barb broke down in that race and that SNS was sore and that Bro got hurt in the gate. His fig was great. Its also not Bern's fault that there is nothing left to beat in the 3YO ranks. But lets face it, before hes worthy of HOY cinch status and Ghostzapper comparisons, hes gotta actually hook up with a real field and win. If you think that running away from Hemingway's Key(I still can't stop laughing about that) is going to be like running away from Invasor or Ghostzapper or Lava Man you have another thing coming. Horses like that arent gonna be defeated with one knockout punch move, that move will. propel you past the three year olds left standing and take you to victory, against horses like Flower Alley or Invasor they arent just gonna let you cruise by and open up. Bern has also never won a stretch duel and never been tested in a case like that.

Oh very mature, Oracle.
I'm so upset that you don't give a hoot what I think; what the heck do I care? By the way, you're a hypocrite - you called Circular Quay one of the best two year olds you've ever seen and basically went ga-ga over him, basically handing him the BC Juvy. LOL - and just who did HE beat? GMAB.

I see selective reading applies on this board; I have said over and over again that it's way too premature to call Bernardini great or to compare him to great horses, but I guess you didn't notice that. Fine - you think he's not that good? Whatever.

So much for this board being a great place for debate, getting on my case because I like a horse. It's extremely insulting to imply that I can't be unbiased because I like a horse, but I'm starting to develop a thick skin.

Originally Posted by Betsy

Oh very mature, Oracle.
I'm so upset that you don't give a hoot what I think; what the heck do I care? By the way, you're a hypocrite - you called Circular Quay one of the best two year olds you've ever seen and basically went ga-ga over him, basically handing him the BC Juvy. LOL - and just who did HE beat? GMAB.

I see selective reading applies on this board; I have said over and over again that it's way too premature to call Bernardini great or to compare him to great horses, but I guess you didn't notice that. Fine - you think he's not that good? Whatever.

So much for this board being a great place for debate, getting on my case because I like a horse. It's extremely insulting to imply that I can't be unbiased because I like a horse, but I'm starting to develop a thick skin.

I guess I wasn't the only one that saw the hypocrisy in that. The fact is saying it about a 3yr old is a lot more legit than saying it about some 2yr old with 2 races.

You are 100% correct about this horse too. Just don't expect anyone to admit they were wrong when he wins the BC Classic by 7 or 8.

[irishtrekker]

Originally Posted by boldruler

I guess I wasn't the only one that saw the hypocrisy in that. The fact is saying it about a 3yr old is a lot more legit than saying it about some 2yr old with 2 races.

You are 100% correct about this horse too. Just don't expect anyone to admit they were wrong when he wins the BC Classic by 7 or 8.

Argh! I don't think anyone on here actually thinks Bernardini *isn't* good. We just don't want to anoint him yet. If I've misunderstood you, my apologies.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Argh! I don't think anyone on here actually thinks Bernardini *isn't* good. We just don't want to anoint him yet. If I've misunderstood you, my apologies.

exactly....

I'll admit I'm wrong....I have no issues with Bernardini...he's a nice horse.


But, I just have a long standing policy that I don't like first against older....when a 3yr old takes on older horses...especially the BCC for the first time. He hasn't been challenged at all to this point...I wish the Preakness would have went better and I'd definitely have a better idea on where I stand with this horse.

...at least I'm consistent...lol

[Gander]

Unless long time is how good Like Now looked in that Gotham romp earlier this year, then your version of "long time" is a lot shorter than mine.

I thought Like Now only won the Gotham by a very small amount? How is that a romp? And that race clearly turned out to be a fluke. I hope your not comparing Bernardini to Like Now? I wouldnt go saying he is better or as good as Ghostzapper (yet) but he is a lot better than Like Now. And he is only getting better. The upside on Bernardini is freakishly good.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by boldruler

I guess I wasn't the only one that saw the hypocrisy in that. The fact is saying it about a 3yr old is a lot more legit than saying it about some 2yr old with 2 races.

You are 100% correct about this horse too. Just don't expect anyone to admit they were wrong when he wins the BC Classic by 7 or 8.

the frustrating part is that in no way have I compared Bernardini to any great horses or given him any award; I have said several times that it's way too premature for that. Naturally, these parts of my posts have been ignored. At this point, it makes no difference what I think about Bernardin because my words will be twisted. I'll let others debate on this; I'm tired