Now does anyone still believe?...

Scav · #1 07-30-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five Star Derek

Lets hope Bernardini can stay healthy and stays around for a four year old campaign. Could be an all-time great if he sticks around and continues to develop. It's great to watch him run.

Not a chance in hell if he wins the BC Classic

Five Star Derek · #2 07-30-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Not a chance in hell if he wins the BC Classic

Your right. It's the unfortunate part of this game. I can still wish.

packerbacker7964 · #3 07-30-2006, 01:20 PM

Hell if he wins the Haskill he'll run in the BC Classic and then be retired to stud. Hell even he doesn't win the Haskill he gets stud duty.

1st_Saturday_in_May · #4 07-30-2006, 01:25 PM

I dont know if he gets retired after the BC. Why? He's owned by Darley. Darley has unlimited funds and doesnt need the money. I think they'd love nothing more to own a horse that is an alltime great and if Bernardini is something special he might stick around next year...

somerfrost · #5 07-30-2006, 01:24 PM

When you have two undefeated horses with as much potential and obvious ability as these two, only a fool would say definitively which would win! Opinions are equally valid...neither lost a race and both obviously had/have tremendous upside! Barbaro demonstrated an ability to carry his class across diverse surfaces (dirt/turf), he also demonstrated the heart of a champion as he was indeed "looked in the eye" in a race that he had every opportunity to lose. I think it's a disservice to both champions to say with any confidence which was/is better. Up to this point, Barbaro showed a little more...turf dominance followed by a Derby win trumps a Preakness win and a public workout yesterday...but that in no way is proof absolute that he was the better horse! My guess (and only a guess)...I'll stick with Barbaro!

Five Star Derek · #6 07-30-2006, 01:26 PM

Either way, we'll never know.

#7 07-30-2006, 01:32 PM

Preakness was the race.

The mudfest helps me with nothing. I dont take a race like that and proclaim the horse a God. We will wait for another dry track with a full field, and a wide range of styles.

Gander · #8 07-30-2006, 01:53 PM

Too bad ESPN's race of the week was a complete bore. Its races like that that will prevent the new fans from wanting to watch. They would be better off showing a low level claiming race, at least those are competitive most of the time. Thats 2 years in a row the Jim Dandy has been a snoozer.

2Hot4TV · #9 07-30-2006, 02:52 PM

Yes and if Bernadini had raced in the Kentucky Derby he would of lost that one too. We are comparing two horses at different stages of their career. Barbaro get hurt and that can't be changed. Just for the record I bet Brother Derik.

Betsy · #10 07-30-2006, 03:02 PM

I should add that Bernardini got a pretty low Beyer (not sure what it was, but it didnt make the top Beyers list on DRF's site), but I suspect that even Andrew Beyer would have to admit that this time, the # doesn't really indicate the quality of Bernardini's race.

Five Star Derek · #11 07-30-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

I should add that Bernardini got a pretty low Beyer (not sure what it was, but it didnt make the top Beyers list on DRF's site), but I suspect that even Andrew Beyer would have to admit that this time, the # doesn't really indicate the quality of Bernardini's race.

I think the beyer is less relevant in this case because he won so easily. If he was pushed we might have a better idea of his true beyer.

2Hot4TV · #12 07-30-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

Preakness was the race.

The mudfest helps me with nothing. I dont take a race like that and proclaim the horse a God. We will wait for another dry track with a full field, and a wide range of styles.

I have little doubt that he is the real deal, but two races do not make you a superstar.

sham · #13 07-30-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

When you have two undefeated horses with as much potential and obvious ability as these two, only a fool would say definitively which would win! Opinions are equally valid...neither lost a race and both obviously had/have tremendous upside! Barbaro demonstrated an ability to carry his class across diverse surfaces (dirt/turf), he also demonstrated the heart of a champion as he was indeed "looked in the eye" in a race that he had every opportunity to lose. I think it's a disservice to both champions to say with any confidence which was/is better. Up to this point, Barbaro showed a little more...turf dominance followed by a Derby win trumps a Preakness win and a public workout yesterday...but that in no way is proof absolute that he was the better horse! My guess (and only a guess)...I'll stick with Barbaro!

I agree completely with this assessment. We will never know who would have won between these two, but I'd bet it would have been one heck-of-a-race. Sorry we missed it. The part I regret the most is not seeing Barbaro take on the Euros on the turf. We get few horses in the states that could compete because our best go to dirt (for the money of course).

Danzig · #14 07-30-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

When you have two undefeated horses with as much potential and obvious ability as these two, only a fool would say definitively which would win! Opinions are equally valid...neither lost a race and both obviously had/have tremendous upside! Barbaro demonstrated an ability to carry his class across diverse surfaces (dirt/turf), he also demonstrated the heart of a champion as he was indeed "looked in the eye" in a race that he had every opportunity to lose. I think it's a disservice to both champions to say with any confidence which was/is better. Up to this point, Barbaro showed a little more...turf dominance followed by a Derby win trumps a Preakness win and a public workout yesterday...but that in no way is proof absolute that he was the better horse! My guess (and only a guess)...I'll stick with Barbaro!

bernardini isn't undefeated, he lost his first race, finished fourth that day. evidently a quick learner.

i really don't care for barbaro/bernardini comparisons. it can only yield bitter fruit imo.

barbaro showed tremendous ability on the track, his will to win is matched by his will to live. he is truly a special, spectacular horse. may he be with us for years to come. i have every intention of enjoying bernardinis wins. but he won't ever be the best 3 yo to me out of this crop.
it was a tremendous win for him yesterday, but he still has much to do to match barbaros feats of the first half of this year.

Betsy · #15 07-30-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

bernardini isn't undefeated, he lost his first race, finished fourth that day. evidently a quick learner.

i really don't care for barbaro/bernardini comparisons. it can only yield bitter fruit imo.

barbaro showed tremendous ability on the track, his will to win is matched by his will to live. he is truly a special, spectacular horse. may he be with us for years to come. i have every intention of enjoying bernardinis wins. but he won't ever be the best 3 yo to me out of this crop.
it was a tremendous win for him yesterday, but he still has much to do to match barbaros feats of the first half of this year.

There I completely disagree. Barbaro won the Holy Bull, Florida Derby and KY Derby. Very impressive accomplishments, obviously, but how do Bernardini's accomplishments not stack up? Withers, Preakness, Jim Dandy - ok, Barbaro has one more Grade 1, but to say that Bernardini has to accomplish a LOT more to even come close to Barbaro? IMO, that's overstating Barbaro's case. You just said you didn't like to compare Barbaro and Bernardini yet you admit that nothing Bernardini does can ever make you think he's the better of the two horses. Then the conversation about Bernardini basically ends right here if he has to compete with the memory of a fallen horse.

Danzig · #16 07-30-2006, 05:30 PM

there is no way anyone could possibly argue that a preakness win is comparable to a derby win, esp not lately when so many have skipped md to rest for belmont--which bernardinis connections decided to skip as well. the derby is THE race in the spring for 3 yo's. barbaros win was emphatic, over (again) the best field assembled in years. some say since secretariats field, others say since iron lieges, when bold ruler, gallant man and round table ran.
also, his margin of victory was one of the largest ever in the derby, and the largest in 60 years since assaults won en route to his triple crown. barbaro started on grass, and made the switch to dirt, winning his first try on that surface in the slop. some said let's see him on fast ground, he answered that question as well. then there was the five week layoff, first horse to win the derby off that length of time off. the withers doesn't equal the holy bull, certainly doesn't equal the florida derby. imo, barbaro was the better horse--he certainly had accomplished far more in his short career than many horses ever do. a catastrophic injury cut his career short, a career that answered any question someone could have about a horse.
as for bernardini, he hasn't won at 10f yet, he hasn't faced the level of comp that barbaro faced yet. he may accomplish more--he has the time to do so i hope! but IMO barbaro is the better of the two.

like i said, comparisons will lead nowhere. bernardini isn't done yet. maybe he'll win the bcc...maybe my opinion will change down the road. but RIGHT NOW, imo, barbaro is the top horse from this crop.