Curlin and Pyro

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

My record? Tell me what this record is and then tell me how it compares to your record? I'd bet that we are pretty much close to the same when it comes to analyzing talent. I'd bet that pretty much everyone on here is close to the same.

Forgetting for a minute about how utterly ridiculous your record is....

DaHoss hit four Pick-4s over the last two weeks....one paid $4400 for $1, one paid $2500 for $2 ( he had it multiple times ), one paid $2K for $2 ( he had it multiple times ) and sadly he only had the last one for $1.....which was still worth $5500 for his measly dollar.

[King Glorious]

So because I don't feel the need to post all of my wagers (winners and losers alike) means that I have no success at it or less than someone else? Ok. But DaHoss' comments weren't about wagering success. It was about analyzing talent. I ask again to tell me what my record is that is so bad and tell me what about other people's records is so good? We all see some horses and think they'll be good and they turn out bad. Or some we think will be bad that turn out good. Before DaHoss wants to tell me how bad my record is, tell me how good his is. That's all I ask.

[blackthroatedwind]

DaHoss has one of the better opinions around.

Your opinion is outrageous and rarely right. You're enthusiastic and enjoyable to banter with but my experience is that you are virtually never right.

I have watched DaHoss have one outstanding opinion after another over the last year, many of which resulted in agonizingly tough beats, and recently he seemed to recover from all his random bad luck in the blink of an eye. I would back his opinion over anyone else's on this board.

We're bettors. We play every day. DaHoss knows his stuff. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

DaHoss has one of the better opinions around.

Your opinion is outrageous and rarely right. You're enthusiastic and enjoyable to banter with but my experience is that you are virtually never right.

I have watched DaHoss have one outstanding opinion after another over the last year, many of which resulted in agonizingly tough beats, and recently he seemed to recover from all his random bad luck in the blink of an eye. I would back his opinion over anyone else's on this board.

We're bettors. We play every day. DaHoss knows his stuff. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.

bingo........

Uh..

I'm still the best handicapper evar....


right guys?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Ok. But DaHoss' comments weren't about wagering success. It was about analyzing talent. I ask again to tell me what my record is that is so bad.

You need only look at your own Signature - and who you rank as the best horse to race in the last 22 years as a start....

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You need only look at your own Signature - and who you rank as the best horse to race in the last 22 years as a start....

Good point.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You need only look at your own Signature - and who you rank as the best horse to race in the last 22 years as a start....

King Glorious-ran 7f in 1:21 1/5, which the DRF printed at the time was equal to the second fastest 7f ever run by a 3yo. Was a grade one winner of the Hollywood Futurity and the Haskell. Finished 8 for 9 in his brief career. Maybe he wouldn't have beaten Easy Goer and Sunday Silence that year but his former rider, hall of famer Chris McCarron, who rode Sunday Silence also, once said that it was his opinion (and I think he knows a little something about horses) that up to a mile, EG and SS wouldn't have been able to catch KG. I know a mile is not the classic distance but it's still meaningful. If KG was as good as they were up to a mile, according to McCarron, that's enough for me to believe that my belief in his ability is not totally unfounded.

Java Gold-won the Whitney, Travers, and Marlboro Cup and was 1/9 to win the JCGC, before being upset. He almost undoubtedbly would have been named HOY had he won that race, having already beaten Alysheba and Bet Twice in the Travers. Yeah, I know, sloppy track. BTW has pointed out that his other major wins also came on wet tracks. But in wins against Broad Brush (who had already beaten that year's HOY Ferdinand) and Gulch (Met Mile, Wood, Gotham) and Polish Navy (Woodward), he had shown that he was a legit horse. Mack Miller called him his best horse ever and he had some good ones.

Lammtarra-won the Epsom Derby in his second career start, off a seven-month layoff, setting a track record in the process. Came back to beat older in the King George and then the Arc to retire 4 of 4. If an American horse were to do the equivalent, win a maiden sprint in October then come back in May to set a track record in the Derby, followed by wins in the Hollywood Gold Cup and BC Classic, he would be hailed as Pegasus.

Smarty Jones-Bobby Frankel, another who's been around a few good horses in his lifetime, said that Smarty was right up there with horses like Bid and other greats. He also got endorsements from guys like Gary Stevens and Jerry Bailey. Or are we all just way out in left field?

Go for Wand-Any horse that can run 7f in 1:21 flat then come back in nine days and run 10f in 2:00 4/5 is a special horse. Do you know that in the history of Saratoga, only General Assembly (2:00), Honest Pleasure (2:00 1/5) have gone faster (Easy Goer and Thunder Rumble did equal it)? Then to top that off, she came back to win a 9f race at Belmont in 1:45 4/5, only 2/5 off of Secretariat's track record. Before falling down, she was nose and nose with Bayakoa in the stretch of the BC Distaff (I thought she was going to win). Bayakoa is arguably the best distaffer in the past 20 years and almost without a doubt would be in everyone's top 3-5. Go for Wand did all of this as a 3yo filly.

Maybe you are right though. Maybe I am horrible at analyzing talent. But if guys like McCarron, Miller, Frankel, Bailey, and Stevens agree with me on some of this stuff, I'm proud to be horrible.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

all i want to know is where is the pine island memorial.. and damit if wonder lady ann l isnt at the top of my where are they now list.....

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe you are right though. Maybe I am horrible at analyzing talent. But if guys like McCarron, Miller, Frankel, Bailey, and Stevens agree with me on some of this stuff, I'm proud to be horrible.

I would like to own Pyro, even though he's a rat.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I would like to own Pyro, even though he's a rat.

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

It's like nails on a chalkboard.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Surprised it took four pages to get this post. Thought it would come immediately.

Give me some credit.

I could never have done it were it not for your equally ridiculous post using the same lines of thinking prior to mine.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe he wouldn't have beaten Easy Goer and Sunday Silence that year but his former rider, hall of famer Chris McCarron, who rode Sunday Silence also, once said that it was his opinion (and I think he knows a little something about horses) that up to a mile, EG and SS wouldn't have been able to catch KG. I know a mile is not the classic distance but it's still meaningful. If KG was as good as they were up to a mile, according to McCarron, that's enough for me to believe that my belief in his ability is not totally unfounded.

Let me make sure I'm getting this right...

You are primarily basing your argument for King Glorious being the best horse to race in the last 22 years because Chris McCarron (a jockey!) said he felt Easy Goer or Sunday Silence might not catch him at distances up to a mile??

Wow.

Look, i've seen film of many King Glorious races - he was an excellent talent for sure and was probably a lot better than most people (besides you obviously) think he was.

However, he was simply not the best horse to race in the last 22 years.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Let me make sure I'm getting this right...

You are primarily basing your argument for King Glorious being the best horse to race in the last 22 years because Chris McCarron (a jockey!) said he felt Easy Goer or Sunday Silence might not catch him at distances up to a mile??

Wow.

Look, i've seen film of many King Glorious races - he was an excellent talent for sure and was probably a lot better than most people (besides you obviously) think he was.

However, he was simply not the best horse to race in the last 22 years.

Not at all. I used McCarron's comments as a basis for saying that the belief in how good he was is not totally off the wall if someone that has ridden him and another horse (SS) that if I had listed him #1, nobody would say anything, is somewhat in agreement with it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not at all. I used McCarron's comments as a basis for saying that the belief in how good he was is not totally off the wall if someone that has ridden him and another horse (SS) that if I had listed him #1, nobody would say anything, is somewhat in agreement with it.

Jockeys are terrible handicappers.

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Forgetting for a minute about how utterly ridiculous your record is....

DaHoss hit four Pick-4s over the last two weeks....one paid $4400 for $1, one paid $2500 for $2 ( he had it multiple times ), one paid $2K for $2 ( he had it multiple times ) and sadly he only had the last one for $1.....which was still worth $5500 for his measly dollar.

My only problem with posting records like this is, nice predictions, but did you put your $$$ where your predictions were? Did DaHoss actually make the wagers on those predicitions? I hope so, but just sayin... I remember Byk giving priase to GPK for predicting a big pick 6 at Tampa last winter. But then I asked the same question- "Kev, did you actually bet your predictions?", He said "No". That sucks. I mean I want people to get paid, but just sayin, make the wager too.

You can argue that they posted those predictions before the races were run, so what's the difference? Well depending on the size and cost of the ticket, you don't know if people would actually the same way they'd predict.

IN THE END THOUGH, I FIGURE MOST OF US FROM A WAGERING AND ANALYZATION STANDPOINT ARE PRETTY EQUAL. WE ALL HAVE GOOD AND BAD DAYS. I prefer opinions about horses that haven't been wagered on, because I'd call a good horse "a pig" if I bet on it and didn't run well. But the great thing (and bad thing) about horse racing, is on one race you can look like a genious, and the next an idiot.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

My only problem with posting records like this is, nice predictions, but did you put your $$$ where your predictions were? Did DaHoss actually make the wagers on those predicitions? I hope so, but just sayin... I remember Byk giving priase to GPK for predicting a big pick 6 at Tampa last winter. But then I asked the same question- "Kev, did you actually bet your predictions?", He said "No". That sucks. I mean I want people to get paid, but just sayin, make the wager too.

You can argue that they posted those predictions before the races were run, so what's the difference? Well depending on the size and cost of the ticket, you don't know if people would actually the same way they'd predict.

Hossy MADE those wagers.. He just choses not to publicize his plays whether successful or unsuccessful. And obviously, he's under no obligation to do so. The point was made above that the 'what's your record' challenges during discussions of opinion are utterly pointless.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

IN THE END THOUGH, I FIGURE MOST OF US FROM A WAGERING AND ANALYZATION STANDPOINT ARE PRETTY EQUAL. WE ALL HAVE GOOD AND BAD DAYS. I prefer opinions about horses that haven't been wagered on, because I'd call a good horse "a pig" if I bet on it and didn't run well. But the great thing (and bad thing) about horse racing, is on one race you can look like a genious, and the next an idiot.

Oh, I disagree with all of this in many ways.

Perhaps many here do have similar opinions, but there are some who's understanding of the game stands above the masses, and those are the ones I am more interested in hearing.

I respect pretty much only the opinions of those who bet their money, as if you don't suffer as a result of bad opinions, you will never learn to modify and improve your opinion. For that very reason, most opinions seen here are random and inconsequential, because there is no punishment for being wrong. Maybe you call a losing horse a " pig " but those of us who are playing seriously actually try to determine if we made a mistake, so as not to repeat it in the future, or if circumstance perhaps prevented a decent opinion from coming to fruition. A successful player will make more correct evaluations than an unsuccessful one over time.

Looking like a genius is wonderful for your ego....but making money is what playing this game is all about. At the end of the day that is what really matters.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Looking like a genius is wonderful for your ego....but making money is what playing this game is all about. At the end of the day that is what really matters.

Aint this the f'n truth.......