Hey King Glorious

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

I'll admit as a Laker fan I was a little dissapointed that they didn't cut ways with Bynum last year for Kidd, because Kobe and Kidd would have been something special. Bynum has been good, but some of the praise is still a little early.

I'm a huge Kobe fan and it's good to see that he finally has realized that he does have guys on the team who can play some pretty damn good basketball, and his trust and faith in his teammates game is obvious by his numbers this year.

Let me ask you a question that I asked all Laker fans last year. Do you believe that a trade of Bynum and Odom for Kidd would have brought the Lakers a championship? I don't. I don't think that would have moved them ahead of San Antonio or Phoenix. In my opinion, a move like that better be for a title run, not just to advance one more round in the playoffs.

Maybe saying that Bynum will be a future hall of famer is a bit premature although I will stand by that. But I do think that his standing among the top five centers is legit and I think he's the one with the most room for growth and improvement among them.

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Let me ask you a question that I asked all Laker fans last year. Do you believe that a trade of Bynum and Odom for Kidd would have brought the Lakers a championship? I don't. I don't think that would have moved them ahead of San Antonio or Phoenix. In my opinion, a move like that better be for a title run, not just to advance one more round in the playoffs.

Maybe saying that Bynum will be a future hall of famer is a bit premature although I will stand by that. But I do think that his standing among the top five centers is legit and I think he's the one with the most room for growth and improvement among them.

I think it very well could have brought them a championship. Going through the Suns and Spurs would have been tough, but they would have had the talent to do it. Once in the finals, Kobe and Kidd would have crushed Lebron and the Cavs.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe saying that Bynum will be a future hall of famer is a bit premature although I will stand by that. But I do think that his standing among the top five centers is legit and I think he's the one with the most room for growth and improvement among them.

A bit premature.
Just a bit... a little bit.

Howard
Garnett
Yao
Duncan
Amarie
Boozer

I dont need to go on. And dont call Duncan, Boozer, Amarie or Garnett PF like they do in All Star crap, they are centers. Which two of these players above do you think Bynum is better than right now?

Answer: NONE

and we could add some more.
And you think Bynum has more upside than Howard(youngest of that group)?
You are not serious.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

A bit premature.
Just a bit... a little bit.

Howard
Garnett
Yao
Duncan
Amarie
Boozer

I dont need to go on. And dont call Duncan, Boozer, Amarie or Garnett PF like they do in All Star crap, they are centers. Which two of these players above do you think Bynum is better than right now?

Answer: NONE

and we could add some more.
And you think Bynum has more upside than Howard(youngest of that group)?
You are not serious.

We disagree on who's a center and who's not. Duncan and Garnett are not centers. To call 6-8 Carlos Boozer a center is a joke. Stoudamire is debatable but even he says he's not a center. There is a difference in being a center and being forced to play the center position. The Mavs go through some periods with Nowitzki listed as their biggest player on the floor and listed as a center. Do you consider him one also? I think Bynum is behind Howard. I think it's a coin flip with Ming. If you include Stoudamire, he's behind him as well. It's pretty much a coin flip with Kaman also. So I think that Bynum is at best #2 and at worst #5.

Dwight Howard is nearly two years older than Bynum is. When Howard was 20 years old, in his second season, he averaged:

15.8 points, 12.5 boards, 1.4 blocks, shot 53%, and played 36.8 minutes in 81 starts.

Bynum at 20, as a starter:

14.8 points, 10.8 boards, 2.4 blocks, 66% shooting, playing 31.1 minutes in 24 starts.

On the surface, the raw numbers are VERY comparable and I'd say favor Bynum. When you look deeper, it's even more in Bynum's favor. At the same age, Howard had played over 2600 minutes in the NBA with a full season as a starter under his belt. Bynum, coming into this season had played just over 2100 minutes and had 53 career starts. It's also worth looking at the list of the guys you consider centers. With the exception of Garnett and Howard, all of the rest are in the Western Conference where Bynum has to face them more often. Add in Kaman and it's even tougher out there. Howard had none of them over in the East till Garnett came this year. So the competition on a nightly basis is tougher for Bynum. One other important fact. Dwight Howard was the leading scorer on that 2005-06 Orlando team. He's still their go-to guy now. Bynum is getting all of his as the third option on this Laker team at best. And it's also worth noting that Howard went into the NBA with a complete high school career. Bynum played about 25 games in high school.

I think that Bynum's upside is higher than Howard's.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And it's also worth noting that Howard went into the NBA with a complete high school career. Bynum played about 25 games in high school.

I thought this sounded funny.

Bynum is a good player with lots of potential but he is not in the same league as Dwight Howard right now. I think there is a better chance that he progresses to a nice 17 pt 12 rebound player than a 2008 version of D.Howard.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I thought this sounded funny.

Bynum is a good player with lots of potential but he is not in the same league as Dwight Howard right now. I think there is a better chance that he progresses to a nice 17 pt 12 rebound player than a 2008 version of D.Howard.

He's a damn near 17-12 guy now. He's at 15 and 11 now as the third option on his team behind Kobe Bryant and playing 31 minutes a game. He's taking an average of about 8.5 shots per game. He could easily be at 17-12 this season before it's over with. You don't think he'll be any better than he is now? I'm not saying he's as good as Howard is right now. But I think he's better at 20 or at least as good as Howard was at the same age and Howard had more NBA experience behind him at that point. I wonder what Bynum would be averaging right now if he was the go-to guy on his team like Howard is?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

He's a damn near 17-12 guy now. He's at 15 and 11 now as the third option on his team behind Kobe Bryant and playing 31 minutes a game. He's taking an average of about 8.5 shots per game. He could easily be at 17-12 this season before it's over with. You don't think he'll be any better than he is now? I'm not saying he's as good as Howard is right now. But I think he's better at 20 or at least as good as Howard was at the same age and Howard had more NBA experience behind him at that point. I wonder what Bynum would be averaging right now if he was the go-to guy on his team like Howard is?

Howard is not a typical go to guy. He gets most of his points on the boards and on dunks. Bynum is helped immensely by having Kobe and Odom on his team because their men can not double down leaving Bynum alone with only his man to beat. I think he can be better, more refined but I dont see a huge leap where he suddenly gets a Tim Duncan midrange jumper. If teams double down on him he has no real answers but they wont because of the prescence of Kobe.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Howard is not a typical go to guy. He gets most of his points on the boards and on dunks. Bynum is helped immensely by having Kobe and Odom on his team because their men can not double down leaving Bynum alone with only his man to beat. I think he can be better, more refined but I dont see a huge leap where he suddenly gets a Tim Duncan midrange jumper. If teams double down on him he has no real answers but they wont because of the prescence of Kobe.

He does have some problems with doubles although he is becoming a better passer with more and more experience. I think Howard benefits a little bit the same way Bynum does by having very capable 3pt shooters like Lewis (39%) and Turkoglu (37%) to stretch the defenses out a little. The thing that may keep Bynum from getting to Howard's level is that Howard is going to keep getting better than he is now but I have no doubt that Bynum can reach Howard's current level.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

We disagree on who's a center and who's not. Duncan and Garnett are not centers. To call 6-8 Carlos Boozer a center is a joke. Stoudamire is debatable but even he says he's not a center. There is a difference in being a center and being forced to play the center position. The Mavs go through some periods with Nowitzki listed as their biggest player on the floor and listed as a center. Do you consider him one also? I think Bynum is behind Howard. I think it's a coin flip with Ming. If you include Stoudamire, he's behind him as well. It's pretty much a coin flip with Kaman also. So I think that Bynum is at best #2 and at worst #5.

Dwight Howard is nearly two years older than Bynum is. When Howard was 20 years old, in his second season, he averaged:

15.8 points, 12.5 boards, 1.4 blocks, shot 53%, and played 36.8 minutes in 81 starts.

Bynum at 20, as a starter:

14.8 points, 10.8 boards, 2.4 blocks, 66% shooting, playing 31.1 minutes in 24 starts.

On the surface, the raw numbers are VERY comparable and I'd say favor Bynum. When you look deeper, it's even more in Bynum's favor. At the same age, Howard had played over 2600 minutes in the NBA with a full season as a starter under his belt. Bynum, coming into this season had played just over 2100 minutes and had 53 career starts. It's also worth looking at the list of the guys you consider centers. With the exception of Garnett and Howard, all of the rest are in the Western Conference where Bynum has to face them more often. Add in Kaman and it's even tougher out there. Howard had none of them over in the East till Garnett came this year. So the competition on a nightly basis is tougher for Bynum. One other important fact. Dwight Howard was the leading scorer on that 2005-06 Orlando team. He's still their go-to guy now. Bynum is getting all of his as the third option on this Laker team at best. And it's also worth noting that Howard went into the NBA with a complete high school career. Bynum played about 25 games in high school.

I think that Bynum's upside is higher than Howard's.

Then who are the centers on their teams? Duncan and Garnett are Centers. The line is very blurred on this. I MIGHT give you Garnett a not being a center. But if you think Amare St. is sort of a center. Then Duncan is a pure center. The only reason Duncan was moved off the allstar ballot at Center is so that he would start because Yao takes 4 zillion Chinese votes.

Boozer is not 6' 8". And Wes Unseld was a center at 6" 6 1/2"

Find one GM that would take Bynum over Howard, and I will give you a GM that does not deserve to be near a basketball team... EVER.

[Cannon Shell]

There are few traditional centers anymore. Boozer is a low post player who plays closer to the basket than the Jazz center who is always hanging out by the 3 point line. He also guards the opposing teams low post player in many occasions.

They may want to call Duncan a forward but he sure plays like a center

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

A bit premature.
Just a bit... a little bit.

Howard
Garnett
Yao
Duncan
Amarie
Boozer

I dont need to go on. And dont call Duncan, Boozer, Amarie or Garnett PF like they do in All Star crap, they are centers. Which two of these players above do you think Bynum is better than right now?

Answer: NONE

and we could add some more.
And you think Bynum has more upside than Howard(youngest of that group)?
You are not serious.

With O'Neal on the court, an obviously happy Stoudemire can play his more natural power forward position.

"There's not as much pressure now, as far as being that center position, that center stopper," Stoudemire said. "I've been playing out of position for four years now. Now I'm back at my natural position. Shaq is the best at his and I'm the best at mine, so it's going to be a great opportunity for us."