PokerStars

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i'm not defending any particular website. i'm defending rational thought.

the odds of 3 races in a row being won by 50-1 shots is 75,000-1 assuming none of the horses are overlays/underlays and ignoring takeout.

the odds you lost that last hand (after being dominated pre-flop, after the flop, and then hitting a 2 outer on the turn) was 2/45 or about 22.5-1. there were 2 aces of the 45 unknown cards in that scenario.

the odds you would have hit your 2 outer on the turn were exactly 23-1 (2 cards out of 46). the odds that you hit your 2 outer and then he hit his 2 outer are 23-1 x 22.5-1 or 517.5-1.

somewhat less than 75,000-1.

the odds that pokerstars is gaming their softwear to create these situations is where i call on you to think hard about your perception.

if they are, they lost you and everyone else who has noticed this as customers generating rake for them.

rummaging around in our own basements to find the broken pipes leaking water that are causing us to think the river flooded is never any fun. it's hard ugly work.

but it pays off. not just in poker.

I believe your odds are too simplistic. The true odds are greater because you are forgetting that nearly half the decks was being delt out to the other 8 or 9 players. I may have failed to mention that this time, it was a tournament. I believe there are intentional 2nd best hand delt to eliminate players. I have quit playing online. The bad beats were just way over the top.

Maybe PokerStars' figures for ever person that hates over the top bad beats, there are 2 others that love it. My friend has done very well at Poker Stars but decided he can't stand the bad beats any more.

He was in a tournament that pays down 3 places. They are down to 4 players. I've already explained that the true odds that someone will have a higher pocket pair is .009% Less than 1 percent (when you have Queens). So what are the odds that you are dealt pocket Aces another player is dealt pocket Kings and another is dealt pockets 10s? (I haven't taken the time to look this one up.) Friend had the pocket Aces didn't want to slow play and went all in. He got two callers the pocket Kings and the pocket 10s. The odds that someone will get a set is pretty good but the odds that everyone has a pocket pair is ridiculous. (ofcourse the guy with the 10s won.) I know that bad beats are part of the game but the frequency and the amount of improbable hands are not part of the game. They are part of a program and knowing the program is the only way some people could play their hands the way they play. I've seen where people go "all in" when they need runner runner to win. Going all in on a draw is a bad play that I haven't seen anywhere more often than PokerStars. I can't afford to study the program.

They aren't getting the money from me and 2 of my friends.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I believe your odds are too simplistic. The true odds are greater because you are forgetting that nearly half the decks was being delt out to the other 8 or 9 players. I may have failed to mention that this time, it was a tournament. I believe there are intentional 2nd best hand delt to eliminate players. I have quit playing online. The bad beats were just way over the top.

Maybe PokerStars' figures for ever person that hates over the top bad beats, there are 2 others that love it. My friend has done very well at Poker Stars but decided he can't stand the bad beats any more.

He was in a tournament that pays down 3 places. They are down to 4 players. I've already explained that the true odds that someone will have a higher pocket pair is .009% Less than 1 percent (when you have Queens). So what are the odds that you are dealt pocket Aces another player is dealt pocket Kings and another is dealt pockets 10s? (I haven't taken the time to look this one up.) Friend had the pocket Aces didn't want to slow play and went all in. He got two callers the pocket Kings and the pocket 10s. The odds that someone will get a set is pretty good but the odds that everyone has a pocket pair is ridiculous. (ofcourse the guy with the 10s won.) I know that bad beats are part of the game but the frequency and the amount of improbable hands are not part of the game. They are part of a program and knowing the program is the only way some people could play their hands the way they play. I've seen where people go "all in" when they need runner runner to win. Going all in on a draw is a bad play that I haven't seen anywhere more often than PokerStars. I can't afford to study the program.

They aren't getting the money from me and 2 of my friends.

"I believe your odds are too simplistic. The true odds are greater because you are forgetting that nearly half the decks was being delt out to the other 8 or 9 players."

2 cards x 9 players (it would actually be 7 players at pokerstars) = 1/2 the deck? your problem may be that you're innumerate.

the folded cards dealt to any player not in the hand are random and unknown, the same as cards remaining in the deck. the odds analysis i did was the standard one you see in any book on poker.

"So what are the odds that you are dealt pocket Aces another player is dealt pocket Kings and another is dealt pockets 10s?"

pretty low in the next hand i play. inevitable if i play long enough.

"I know that bad beats are part of the game but the frequency and the amount of improbable hands are not part of the game."

improbable things should happen in a predictable pattern. gotcha.

"They are part of a program and knowing the program is the only way some people could play their hands the way they play.I've seen where people go "all in" when they need runner runner to win."

or they are bad players that got lucky. that's the tax you pay for sitting at a table with players you can predictably make a profit from.

you may be expecting too much from your bankroll. try lower stakes until you are profitable and then climb the ladder.

you won't find any other website is different. the complaints you make are made by players universally at the sites i've played. maybe the whole industry is a scam. more likely most players are unequipped emotionally to deal with losing bad beats and imprint those more than they do the times they are advantaged as an underdog.

i like online because the rakes are lower and there is no tipping expected (a further drain in live play).

i've had horrendous bad streaks. taking a break is a good idea. after that though, start looking at your game.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

"I believe your odds are too simplistic. The true odds are greater because you are forgetting that nearly half the decks was being delt out to the other 8 or 9 players."

2 cards x 9 players (it would actually be 7 players at pokerstars) = 1/2 the deck? your problem may be that you're innumerate.

10 players total plus 3 burn cards = 23 half of 52 is 26.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

the folded cards dealt to any player not in the hand are random and unknown, the same as cards remaining in the deck. the odds analysis i did was the standard one you see in any book on poker.

"So what are the odds that you are dealt pocket Aces another player is dealt pocket Kings and another is dealt pockets 10s?"

pretty low in the next hand i play. inevitable if i play long enough.

I just looked on the internet for the percentages of the odds of over pairs. Anyway - I was playng my FFP while waiting to get my money. Those games always have people going all in on the first hand. Another player commented that this was the 3rd game in a row that pocket Kings won the hand. I witnessed it twice myself. It doesn't seem random.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

"I know that bad beats are part of the game but the frequency and the amount of improbable hands are not part of the game."

improbable things should happen in a predictable pattern. gotcha.

"Improbable things" were predictable via the program. That is my complaint. I think some were keeping a spreadsheet or had a photographic memory. I recognized some of the hands.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

"They are part of a program and knowing the program is the only way some people could play their hands the way they play.I've seen where people go "all in" when they need runner runner to win."

or they are bad players that got lucky. that's the tax you pay for sitting at a table with players you can predictably make a profit from.

you may be expecting too much from your bankroll. try lower stakes until you are profitable and then climb the ladder.

This is a memorable hand. $1/2 table started with $100. Worked up to $1,400 other player with $3,000+ is buying pots left and right. I wanted a confrontation. I don't play anything for what seemed like 10 hands. I'm in the small blind with KQ hearts. He's on the button and raises. I just call. The flop has 2 hearts. I bet he raises. I just call. The turn is a heart. I bet he raises I re-raise heavy. There isn't a pair on the board and I wanted him gone. He re-raises puts me all in. The river card is another heart. (and how do all gambling stories end? in tragedy) You got it. 4 hearts on the board and he had the Ace of hearts. That is all he had. Bad player or someone that knew the program?

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you won't find any other website is different. the complaints you make are made by players universally at the sites i've played. maybe the whole industry is a scam. more likely most players are unequipped emotionally to deal with losing bad beats and imprint those more than they do the times they are advantaged as an underdog.

i like online because the rakes are lower and there is no tipping expected (a further drain in live play).

i've had horrendous bad streaks. taking a break is a good idea. after that though, start looking at your game.

you start believing that you should play 8 2 more often than AK <-- extremely overrated IMO. I would rather have J 10.

I have decided to take your advice. I have deleted the software from my machine and don't plan on going back.

[Scav]

Seat 1: ericsheikh (3,095)
Seat 2: Metallos (7,306)
Seat 3: scavsiu8 (5,865)
Seat 4: AmeerH (3,182)
Seat 5: CarrDogg (3,740)
Seat 6: corover1967 (6,370)
Seat 7: Pampooso (1,560)
Seat 8: sandston (435)
Seat 9: KyleFly (1,952)
KyleFly posts the small blind of 50
ericsheikh posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to scavsiu8 [7s 7c]
Metallos folds
scavsiu8 raises to 465
AmeerH folds
scarrs (Observer): i hate pocket 10
CarrDogg calls 465
corover1967 calls 465
Pampooso folds
KyleFly folds
ericsheikh folds
*** FLOP *** [7h 6c 5h]
scavsiu8 checks
CarrDogg bets 1,545
corover1967 has 15 seconds left to act
corover1967 raises to 5,905, and is all in
scavsiu8 calls 5,400, and is all in
CarrDogg calls 1,730, and is all in
corover1967 shows [Ac 9c]
scavsiu8 shows [7s 7c]
CarrDogg shows [Ts Td]
Uncalled bet of 505 returned to corover1967
*** TURN *** [7h 6c 5h] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [7h 6c 5h 2c] [4c]
corover1967 shows a flush, Ace high
scavsiu8 shows three of a kind, Sevens
corover1967 wins the side pot (4,250) with a flush, Ace high
CarrDogg shows a pair of Tens
corover1967 wins the main pot (11,370) with a flush, Ace high
CarrDogg stands up
scavsiu8 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15,620 Main pot 11,370. Side pot 4,250. | Rake 0
Board: [7h 6c 5h 2c 4c]
Seat 1: ericsheikh (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Metallos didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: scavsiu8 showed [7s 7c] and lost with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 4: AmeerH didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: CarrDogg showed [Ts Td] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 6: corover1967 showed [Ac 9c] and won (15,620) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 7: Pampooso (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: sandston is sitting out
Seat 9: KyleFly (small blind) folded before the Flop

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Scav

Seat 1: ericsheikh (3,095)
Seat 2: Metallos (7,306)
Seat 3: scavsiu8 (5,865)
Seat 4: AmeerH (3,182)
Seat 5: CarrDogg (3,740)
Seat 6: corover1967 (6,370)
Seat 7: Pampooso (1,560)
Seat 8: sandston (435)
Seat 9: KyleFly (1,952)
KyleFly posts the small blind of 50
ericsheikh posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to scavsiu8 [7s 7c]
Metallos folds
scavsiu8 raises to 465
AmeerH folds
scarrs (Observer): i hate pocket 10
CarrDogg calls 465
corover1967 calls 465
Pampooso folds
KyleFly folds
ericsheikh folds
*** FLOP *** [7h 6c 5h]
scavsiu8 checks
CarrDogg bets 1,545
corover1967 has 15 seconds left to act
corover1967 raises to 5,905, and is all in
scavsiu8 calls 5,400, and is all in
CarrDogg calls 1,730, and is all in
corover1967 shows [Ac 9c]
scavsiu8 shows [7s 7c]
CarrDogg shows [Ts Td]
Uncalled bet of 505 returned to corover1967
*** TURN *** [7h 6c 5h] [2c]
*** RIVER *** [7h 6c 5h 2c] [4c]
corover1967 shows a flush, Ace high
scavsiu8 shows three of a kind, Sevens
corover1967 wins the side pot (4,250) with a flush, Ace high
CarrDogg shows a pair of Tens
corover1967 wins the main pot (11,370) with a flush, Ace high
CarrDogg stands up
scavsiu8 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15,620 Main pot 11,370. Side pot 4,250. | Rake 0
Board: [7h 6c 5h 2c 4c]
Seat 1: ericsheikh (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Metallos didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: scavsiu8 showed [7s 7c] and lost with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 4: AmeerH didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: CarrDogg showed [Ts Td] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 6: corover1967 showed [Ac 9c] and won (15,620) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 7: Pampooso (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: sandston is sitting out
Seat 9: KyleFly (small blind) folded before the Flop

well obviously you need to re-evaluate your play.
ALL IN needing runner runner and gets it. That just Sux doesn't seem appropiate. Is he an idiot that has all the chips or do you think the program has been cracked?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

well obviously you need to re-evaluate your play.
ALL IN needing runner runner and gets it. That just Sux doesn't seem appropiate. Is he an idiot that has all the chips or do you think the program has been cracked?

I don't know. He might have been an extremely weak player that was trying to bluff and got slow rolled by me. As I was telling a friend last night, in real life, that play is never made by that guy, but because it is online and an extremely low level of online play, **** like that happens

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't know. He might have been an extremely weak player that was trying to bluff and got slow rolled by me. As I was telling a friend last night, in real life, that play is never made by that guy, but because it is online and an extremely low level of online play, **** like that happens

yes it does happen but it also happens at a higher level of play. I decided I couldn't beat people who are either bad or know the program. Good luck

May the suckout be with you

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

well obviously you need to re-evaluate your play.
ALL IN needing runner runner and gets it. That just Sux doesn't seem appropiate. Is he an idiot that has all the chips or do you think the program has been cracked?

i'm out.

i can't change anyone's faith nor would i want to.

and that's what this thread wound up being about. you either believe there is a on-line poker business model built on the inevitability of profits raking a high traffic site or you are conspiracy guy.

and i'll stop banging my head against the wall arguing with conspiracy guy.

we're even btw.

[NoChanceToDance]

Just read through the thread, I miust say I find the thoughts interesting. I've started to play online poker (both for money and for fun) over the last few months.

One thing I have noticed on many of the sites is that the people who bet most hands usually keep getting nice cards. As if the site is saying, the more hands you play the better your cards will get.

Of course, this could be luck, but I've seen it so many times. I played a tournament last week and this one guy must have bet at least 75% of the hands. He never lost the chip lead.

On betfair poker, me and a few friends have commented that whoever has the chip lead after usually continues to get very good cards.

I've been done with a set of Kings on the river. I had pocket kings and put in a fair size bet pre flop. I had two takers. Flop came out 7K2, I was over the moon with that flop, made a substantial bet, first player folded and the next raised me all in. I thought for a while..... I was like "well, he can't be in front" I expected him to have pocket 7s or pocket 2's. I call. Cards come down, he has A7....... so i'm like "wtf".... turn comes down ACE..... hmmmm, I was busy thinking about chances of an ace on the river..... river card also an ACE!! full house aces over sevens beating my set of kings.

This guy either had no clue what he was doing or knew he would get paid off in the end. It was like he was the one with the big hand at the flop.

I've been beaten after betting flops going all in with others on the same website where they have needed both cards to make a flush or stragitht.It has happened three or four times now.

It's a bit more than lucky for their point of view.