How do you.....

[robfla]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He was a lot faster than Afleet Alex but not as fast as the real greats of the past. To me he was pretty much as good as Cigar...though Cigar was a little faster on his best days.

Here's the problem as I see it, to many people who haven't followed the game for that long, and don't know the history, these horses are special....because relative to what they've seen they are, in fact, special. Now, in the short term there's nothing specifically wrong with that, but in relation to the true greats these horses are also rans. That doesn't mean they aren't very good horses, but it also doesn't put them in the rarified air of the true greats, and if you are going to attach the word " great " to a horse it is competing with history....and not just the personal history of the judger.

in today's state of racing we will never have another " great " horse.

[MaTH716]

What about a horse like Left Bank. Multiple Graded wins and track records at 2 different distances?

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

What about a horse like Left Bank. Multiple Graded wins and track records at 2 different distances?

Track records are highly overrated. They are too much a function of track condition and not enough of a function of the horse's brilliance.

[Indian Charlie]

Must win at least one superbowl

[King Glorious]

For me, it's the ability to not just compete but win the majority of times that a horse faces the highest levels of his/her competition while either running fast times or earning high figures or preferrably both and doing it under a variety of different circumstances. I look at horses that travel well and horses that run on different kinds of surfaces and give them extra credit.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

What about a horse like Left Bank. Multiple Graded wins and track records at 2 different distances?

Left Bank had a very good couple of months and a very disappointing couple of years.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by robfla

in today's state of racing we will never have another " great " horse.

Whatever, Bold Ruler was a miler.

Seriously though, to expand on robfla's point, if one of our qualifications is going to be "longevity" or even "beat the best competition" then there will be no more great horses. Horses no longer stick around, and trainers and owners duck other stars more often than not.

Today, it MOSTLY boils down to talent in my eyes. Hence why I think Ghostzapper was great. He wasn't sturdy, he didn't beat any other great horses (although he beat some very good ones) and he certainly didn't hang around long. His talent level and versatility, however, were absurd. Ghostzapper was one of a kind, and when your ability is that far above anything that's run in the past decade, you're great.

People will disagree with me and put horses like Invasor or Pleasantly Perfect over Ghostzapper because they danced more dances, but I'll take brilliance over longevity when it's not truly longevity, but a very relative version of it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Whatever, Bold Ruler was a miler.

Seriously though, to expand on robfla's point, if one of our qualifications is going to be "longevity" or even "beat the best competition" then there will be no more great horses. Horses no longer stick around, and trainers and owners duck other stars more often than not.

Today, it MOSTLY boils down to talent in my eyes. Hence why I think Ghostzapper was great. He wasn't sturdy, he didn't beat any other great horses (although he beat some very good ones) and he certainly didn't hang around long. His talent level and versatility, however, were absurd. Ghostzapper was one of a kind, and when your ability is that far above anything that's run in the past decade, you're great.

People will disagree with me and put horses like Invasor or Pleasantly Perfect over Ghostzapper because they danced more dances, but I'll take brilliance over longevity when it's not truly longevity, but a very relative version of it.

so be it.
if you water down the qualifications, then it doesn't mean as much.
like i've seen written before on the subject, 'great isn't so great anymore'.

it's like what we now know as the steroids era in baseball....horses will be modern day greats, they can no longer be compared historically.