Andrea Yates found not gulity!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

S'okay, 2Mins, post strong opinions away. With a few exceptions, no one seems to get awful in discussion on derbytrail. For which I am grateful!

What makes it different is that a child molester is molesting children because that's how he (or she, I'll be fair) gets his/her rocks off. A man shooting his cheating wife is acting in a fit of rage. Andrea Yates heard voices in her head telling her she was saving the children from Satan by killing them. She really thought she was doing the right thing by killing them. Whether her mental illness was genetic or brought about by circumstance, I don't know. She was (is) a very religious woman, and to her Hell is a very real place. And her holy book has many instances of major characters hearing God speak to them, and then there she was, hearing voices herself (which many, many, many people suffering from severe depression do). How was she to know it wasn't God speaking to her?

And here's something else-- it is very, very difficult to dupe a jury into thinking someone is insane when he or she is not. Many serial killers have tried it and failed. Psychologists and psychiatrists aren't stupid-- they can tell the difference between someone who is really ill and someone who is faking. And the only way the prosecution could guarantee their conviction in the first trial was by presenting false evidence. Let's think about that-- the prosecution, the state of Texas, felt it necessary to LIE TO THE JURY in order to convince those 12 men and women that Andrea Yates was sane. And it worked, and thank God for justice that the lie was discovered. And without that lie, 12 different men and women found her incapable of comprehending her own actions.

And if she is ever "cured," I guarantee you she will be waiting for death to take her, too. Because I fully believe she loved her children, just as I believe she was too sick to understand what was happening to her sanity, or how to get out of the situation she was in (though I don't know, as do none of us, I can't help but believe her home situation contributed to her illness). In some ways, putting her to death might have been more merciful to her. But not as punishment for her crime. She didn't understand what she was doing. The child molesters, the man shooting his wife, for that matter the man who shot his 13-year-old daughter when she tried to abort his child (I just learned that lovely story this week)-- they know they do wrong. Andrea Yates didn't. She just didn't.

Good answer GR....I have little to add except for the fact that mental illness is simply not understood in our culture. A person gets cancer or has a stroke and we are (usually) compassionate, understanding and caring. Someone is psychotic, depressed or delusional and we think it's somehow their fault or they are play-acting, or somehow a "bad" person. I don't want to offend anyone but it's ignorance like that holding mankind back! I guess we've come somewhat forward from the days when a mentally ill person was thought to be possessed by some mythological "devil" and tortured to death...but then, today, I read posts like on this board calling for some pound of flesh and I think...you never know when to expect the Inquisition! Oral Roberts talks to his god and he's a great man with his own college...Joan of Arc was burned at the stake, and most folks today are judged insane...doesn't seem to be a pattern! All I know is this...command auditory hallucinations are not usually a good thing but theyt are very very powerful to those experiencing them...I'm not sure how folks can judge others without the experience to do so?!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Good answer GR....I have little to add except for the fact that mental illness is simply not understood in our culture. A person gets cancer or has a stroke and we are (usually) compassionate, understanding and caring. Someone is psychotic, depressed or delusional and we think it's somehow their fault or they are play-acting, or somehow a "bad" person. I don't want to offend anyone but it's ignorance like that holding mankind back! I guess we've come somewhat forward from the days when a mentally ill person was thought to be possessed by some mythological "devil" and tortured to death...but then, today, I read posts like on this board calling for some pound of flesh and I think...you never know when to expect the Inquisition! Oral Roberts talks to his god and he's a great man with his own college...Joan of Arc was burned at the stake, and most folks today are judged insane...doesn't seem to be a pattern! All I know is this...command auditory hallucinations are not usually a good thing but theyt are very very powerful to those experiencing them...I'm not sure how folks can judge others without the experience to do so?!

True, true. If there is any good at all to be found out of this horrible, awful tragedy, it's that post-partum depression has received much attention as a result and perhaps women who are suffering, even if not as severely as Andrea Yates, will be able to get help. Even so, mental illness is still poorly understood in this culture-- you are so right about that.

[2MinsToPost]

well yeah, I don't have the background that you two have so my opinion is based strictly on EMOTION and not Facts as they lie. I see your point and it is well received. Thank goodness these days I am open to learning and understanding and not black and white.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

well yeah, I don't have the background that you two have so my opinion is based strictly on EMOTION and not Facts as they lie. I see your point and it is well received. Thank goodness these days I am open to learning and understanding and not black and white.

Curt,
Let me tell you...I was angry as HELL about the deaths of those kids...her own children!!! My own emotions told me to say, "Kill her the same way she killed her kids."
Then, I heard a small voice inside that said, "There's more to this than you understand, Wayne."

So, it's really not for me to judge.
The more I see, the less black or white exists...only shades of grey.

DTS

The jury realized the torture the entire family is going thru. This lady probably wants to die on alternate days anyway. Nothing worse could be done to all involved. Jury is giving her a chance to live without constant suffering. She will suffer for the rest of her life, maybe it will be tolerable some days. One can only hope. A totally sad situation.

[irishtrekker]

I found it remarkable that her husband supported the ruling, too -- there aren't many people in the middle of things like this who could see the "bigger picture" and recognize what's legitimately best for all involved.

I worked in prisons, too, although in more of an outreach/tutoring capacity and not for nearly as long as you, Somer...but it's amazing how much your perspective changes when you spend time behind those walls. I have a really difficult time explaining it to people who've never been there...but my views on incarceration are considerably more thought-out and nuanced than they would ever be if I hadn't seen it. It's one of the most hidden-away parts of society, and I'm not sure that's right.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

I found it remarkable that her husband supported the ruling, too -- there aren't many people in the middle of things like this who could see the "bigger picture" and recognize what's legitimately best for all involved.

I worked in prisons, too, although in more of an outreach/tutoring capacity and not for nearly as long as you, Somer...but it's amazing how much your perspective changes when you spend time behind those walls. I have a really difficult time explaining it to people who've never been there...but my views on incarceration are considerably more thought-out and nuanced than they would ever be if I hadn't seen it. It's one of the most hidden-away parts of society, and I'm not sure that's right.

I agree totally! People hear about the cable TV and the "special treatment" and some of that does indeed go on and is frustrating but the big picture...the one where decent folks are turned into animals, isn't seen. Loss of freedom is the price one pays for violating the laws of society but subjecting folks to brutality should never be acceptable! There are a lot of good people who work in our prisons, it takes a strong will to step through those gates every day...but the environment is NOT one of rehabilitation but learning to be more vicious, more uncaring, more dangerous...and when those folks get out, and most do...we've done nothing but created our own monsters! And sending mentally ill folks into that world....well, it's simply wrong!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

well yeah, I don't have the background that you two have so my opinion is based strictly on EMOTION and not Facts as they lie. I see your point and it is well received. Thank goodness these days I am open to learning and understanding and not black and white.

And your compassion for those poor kids was obvious in every line of your email-- your rage at their deaths was completely understandable. For a lot of us, mental illness can be a very hard thing to wrap one's thoughts around because it's so completely outside our own realm of experience.

And life does seem to be one long learning process, doesn't it? For all of us.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Good answer GR....I have little to add except for the fact that mental illness is simply not understood in our culture. A person gets cancer or has a stroke and we are (usually) compassionate, understanding and caring. Someone is psychotic, depressed or delusional and we think it's somehow their fault or they are play-acting, or somehow a "bad" person. I don't want to offend anyone but it's ignorance like that holding mankind back! I guess we've come somewhat forward from the days when a mentally ill person was thought to be possessed by some mythological "devil" and tortured to death...but then, today, I read posts like on this board calling for some pound of flesh and I think...you never know when to expect the Inquisition! Oral Roberts talks to his god and he's a great man with his own college...Joan of Arc was burned at the stake, and most folks today are judged insane...doesn't seem to be a pattern! All I know is this...command auditory hallucinations are not usually a good thing but theyt are very very powerful to those experiencing them...I'm not sure how folks can judge others without the experience to do so?!

Somerfrost and Genuine Risk,
You've both put out caring and compassionate insights to "mental illness".
I'll just put in my two pennies worth...
This is an illness.
Many people have no understanding as there aren't physical manifestations, other than the tragedy of actions caused by the "demons".

A wise man once said, "Judge not lest you be judged."
I could supply His name but those that wish to judge might have an experience reading about Him. He can be found in the New Testament.

btw...He also cast out demons.