Chris Antley

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You keep ignoring a pretty big part of this. Say the weights are raised to 120-130. What do you propose we tell the people that are normally 140-150 pounds that are now getting in the sweat boxes and flipping? They'll be trying to make the weight and eventually I'm sure we'll be hearing again about how unfair the weights are. At what weight will it end? If you have to resort to practices that are life threatening to you, maybe you're too big to be a jock.

Right now a good number of our jockeys have brittle, thin bones (chronic malnutrition), esophageal varicies or bleeding from chronic heaving, permanent heart and kidney damage and electrolyte imbalances (especially calcium, potassium) from extreme dieting and the chronic abuse of diuretics and purgatives, etc.

Maybe only a very few of them should be riding in the afternoons right now anyway? The naturally smaller young apprentices and young journeymen that stay very small - they can ride for a few years, and as they enter their mid-twenties and start accumulating too much weight they should quit?

As you move from the current extreme edge of the bell curve (where only 1-2% of the population is a certain size, and everyone but young apprentices has to abuse their bodies to make weight) towards the middle a few pounds, you'll have a greater population able to hold a certain weight - from above and below that point on the bell curve - without having to physically abusing themselves by bulemia, cocaine, sweatboxes, lasix and other diuretic and purgative abuse, etc.

The population in the US has been getting taller over the past century, so the available population for that extreme side of the bell curve has been getting smaller and smaller. Yet we still want people that fit into that size limitation from a century ago (I think NY has raised their weights a few years back) and now we can rarely find people of that small size in the US, we have to get them from countries that are, health and nutrition-wise, still a century behind us.

"Where will it end" is the most important question, because over the same time period horses have been getting faster, meaning lighter in bone, etc - how much weight can the horses of today be asked to safely carry? Not much more than they are now, I think.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Riot

Right now a good number of our jockeys have brittle, thin bones (chronic malnutrition), esophageal varicies or bleeding from chronic heaving, permanent heart and kidney damage and electrolyte imbalances (especially calcium, potassium) from extreme dieting and the chronic abuse of diuretics and purgatives, etc.

Maybe only a very few of them should be riding in the afternoons right now anyway? The naturally smaller young apprentices and young journeymen that stay very small - they can ride for a few years, and as they enter their mid-twenties and start accumulating too much weight they should quit?

As you move from the current extreme edge of the bell curve (where only 1-2% of the population is a certain size, and everyone but young apprentices has to abuse their bodies to make weight) towards the middle a few pounds, you'll have a greater population able to hold a certain weight - from above and below that point on the bell curve - without having to physically abusing themselves by bulemia, cocaine, sweatboxes, lasix and other diuretic and purgative abuse, etc.

The population in the US has been getting taller over the past century, so the available population for that extreme side of the bell curve has been getting smaller and smaller. Yet we still want people that fit into that size limitation from a century ago (I think NY has raised their weights a few years back) and now we can rarely find people of that small size in the US, we have to get them from countries that are, health and nutrition-wise, still a century behind us.

"Where will it end" is the most important question, because over the same time period horses have been getting faster, meaning lighter in bone, etc - how much weight can the horses of today be asked to safely carry? Not much more than they are now, I think.

good post.

thoughtful. nuanced. pretty much everything i never expect to find on an internet board.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

good post.

thoughtful. nuanced. pretty much everything i never expect to find on an internet board.

Almost as good as the one where you were trying to say that Lukas is a shitty trainer because his former "assitants" haven't done well. Hmmmm....

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Almost as good as the one where you were trying to say that Lukas is a shitty trainer because his former "assitants" haven't done well. Hmmmm....

don't forget the one where i brought up the long whip he used on azeri in training.

btw: quotation marks should contain actual quotes.

[fpsoxfan]

Thanks for the tip about the proper grammar. You have been very helpful lately, especially with the sharting problem.

[Mag]

Back to the topic, I do not think Antley should be in any HOF. Sorry, had he not messed up so many times and ended up killing himself he may have been around some more years and really proven that he belonged. I just don't see rewarding chronic drug users with honors.

As a grown adult, he had a choice. The choice he made failed him. Too bad, he was a brilliant rider and probably a decent day trader. He should have chosen to leave a better legacy for his kid.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Mag

Back to the topic, I do not think Antley should be in any HOF. Sorry, had he not messed up so many times and ended up killing himself he may have been around some more years and really proven that he belonged. I just don't see rewarding chronic drug users with honors.

As a grown adult, he had a choice. The choice he made failed him. Too bad, he was a brilliant rider and probably a decent day trader. He should have chosen to leave a better legacy for his kid.

Sometimes it's not just as clear as that. Let's award him for his accomplishments as a jockey not degrade him for his off track troubles.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Mag

Back to the topic, I do not think Antley should be in any HOF. Sorry, had he not messed up so many times and ended up killing himself he may have been around some more years and really proven that he belonged. I just don't see rewarding chronic drug users with honors.

As a grown adult, he had a choice. The choice he made failed him. Too bad, he was a brilliant rider and probably a decent day trader. He should have chosen to leave a better legacy for his kid.

If not an absolute winner, certainly a deep finalist for " worst first post " in the history of internet message boards.

As you can see, I disagree with you, and ( at least in this case ) I am all for rewarding ( or is it awarding ) chronic drug users with honors.

[Riot]

good post.thoughtful. nuanced. pretty much everything i never expect to find on an internet board.

I'm sorry.

[fpsoxfan]

It's very sad to me what many of the Jocks have to put themselves through.
I was just getting into the game when Randy Romero was at his peak. I feel sorry for the guy and what he goes through, but I think what Hossy is saying is accurate. Even if the weights are increased there will always be those who will resort to abusing their bodies in order to make weight. But as Dahoss says, it's the profession they've chosen. They could always try something else.

[Riot]

Sometimes we can't be what we want to because of size, it sucks, but oh well.

I know. My dream of being an anorexic runway supermodel died at 15