Country Star

[blackthroatedwind]

Backstreet Rhythm had already demonstrated she was OK on the dirt. I realize her races may not look good on paper but there were extenuating circumstances and what she really needed was more distance ( I did make her a hidden horse on Playing to Win off her Saratoga races ). However, her suck up second in the Frizette was not nearly as good as her turf race and while I can understand them trying dirt stakes for obvious reasons I think, based on her maiden win, her real future lies on the lawn.

As for Mushka, she ran much better on the dirt ( albeit a wet track ) in her maiden win than her turf debut and as you pointed out she benefited from a great setup in winning the Demoiselle ( though she still ran OK ). Just because two OK dirt horses happened to run in the turf maiden race of Country Star's hardly increases the likelihood that she's a turf horse. I can't understand your logic in that....if that's what you're implying.

I will say that Lear's Princess, however, is a great example of a horse that is talented on all surfaces. She is much more the exception than the rule.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'll be shocked if she is a star on dirt. She doesn't run like a dirt horse. Now, there is a lot of money to be made winning on synthetic and turf, nothing wrong with that. But the chances she is even equally as good on dirt as she is on those surfaces is minimal at best.

Can you tell me, and I really am interested not trying to be a wise-ass, what makes you think she does not run like a dirt horse?

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just because two OK dirt horses happened to run in the turf maiden race of Country Star's hardly increases the likelihood that she's a turf horse. I can't understand your logic in that....if that's what you're implying.

You lost me. All I'm trying to understand is how one can determine from turf and poly efforts that a horse won't be as good on the dirt.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

You lost me. All I'm trying to understand is how one can determine from turf and poly efforts that a horse won't be as good on the dirt.

I understand....I was just confused.

CJ is capable of doing anything. I am capable of little.

[blackthroatedwind]

I didn't say there were no horses....just not that many. The odds are substantially against it and at a short price I will take my chances against Country Star in her dirt debut....especially if it's a tough race.

[Riot]

Country Star is by Empire Maker (no dirt slouch) - Unbridled - Fappiano - Mr. Prospector (dirt sire) combined with Le Fabuleux (France). Toussauds family has turf influence through El Gran Senor, but she produced both G1's Empire Maker and Chester House. Dams side, Seattle Slew over a full brother of Mr. Prospector? Plenty of dirt in that pedigree.

As far as her running style, I'll take powerful, long, low strides as perfect for a dirt horse anytime. She looks alot like her sire in that respect.

We'll see. I hope she does turn out to be something amazing.

As an aside, Barbaro started on the turf, and against the conventional thought of his pedigree, did just fine on dirt. With a different running style than Country Star.

Yeah I hope to see her run alot. And one thing is for sure, Frankel likes to run them alot.

Oh sheesh who the hell am I trying to kid? Nevermind.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I don't think anyone can really know what to expect from Country Star when she runs on dirt. Her pedigree projects well enough for dirt - and Frankel's most recent interview gave the impression he thinks she will handle it well - but it's hard not to forget a horse like the Frankel trained Cantabria bet to odds-on favortisim in last years Grade 2 El Encino.

It was her dirt debut, and she was being bet on the basis of a performance over the HP cushion track. She ran a very non-threatning 5th, always struggling.

From a gambling standpoint - I don't want her first time she runs on the dirt. Would she be a bet against? - because she projects fairly well to handle the surface - I don't think she has to be.

As for the soon to be champ,

Indian Blessing is a natural sprinter - and a very good one at that - who's managed to win a pair of soft division Grade 1 races at distances beyond her scope despite staggering away the final quarter mile on fumes.

A lot can happen between now and the Oaks - but riders on horses of all styles rarely bide there time in very important races when accomplished horses like IB are free running on the lead - if IB can sustain or somehow raise her repute from now until the Oaks ... you get the feeling that the race could have a collapse scenario... and some horse who fits the profile of a Lemons Forever (beyond talentless - but always grinding) will run a race that will make such a horse look far better than she really is.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She's a good horse, and ran faster I think than Zenyatta.

2/5ths in fact.

Though Zenyatta had the kind of trip that just doesn't seem to ever lead to good results out there - I thought her performance was clearly more impressive analytically - but being a late season 3yo compared to a late season 2yo ... that's not exactly saying a whole lot.

Zenyatta is another who's never run on dirt - and has a pedigree that seems to project very well to both surfaces.

From a dirt standpoint - she's by a proven dirt horse and dirt sire in Street Cry and is a half sibling to multiple Grade 1 winner Balance.

From a turf standpoint - her sire Street Cry is an Irish bred son of a multi Euro Group 1 winner out of a Irish Oaks winning dam. Zenyatta's dam Vertigineux won both of her career starts going 10 furlongs on the turf, Vertigineux is kin to several euro stakes winners - and the only other two foals she's dropped, Where's Bailey and Balance . both won on the turf.

[Indian Charlie]

greinton kicked ass on both turf and dirt!

what a monster that one was.

[cmorioles]

When I say she doesn't run like a dirt horse, I'm not talking about her stride or staying low or anything like that. She doesn't appear to me to have that high cruising speed that is so successful in dirt races. She has the perfect running style for turf and synthetic, not for dirt.