Three New BC Races

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

From a business perspective, the Friday races were a huge success.

Unless you accept at least the possibility that the diluted races on Saturday, at least partially due to Friday's races, were what led to the substantial decrease in handle on the big day.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Unless you accept at least the possibility that the diluted races on Saturday, at least partially due to Friday's races, were what led to the substantial decrease in handle on the big day.

Who besides maybe Corinthian or Discreet Cat ran on Friday instead of Sat?

The fact that the long turf races were underfilled may have been more of a contributor to the handle decrease.

[blackthroatedwind]

La Traviata, Dream Rush, and Diamond Stripes off the top of my head.

[brockguy]

turf sprint - who will show up? its a great idea in theory but i cant see it getting the quality of the HK sprint.
dirt marathon - terrible name, most of the top quality 12f horses are top quality 10f horses anyway..
juvi turf fillies - turf race didnt look great this year, this race could be awful..

[blackthroatedwind]

People are " bitching ", Chuck, because it's a topic of interest. The BC has run roughshod over major racing to the point of making a year of once historically great racing almost superfluous. Luckily, these new races won't make many races meaningless because there are absolutely no races to substantiate them.

It is the BC that named themselves the " World Championship " races and now they are making supposed championships for divisions that barely exist and only do so at a very mediocre level. We have every right to bitch about how preposterous they are.

None of this particularly affects me personally as I deal with racing on a day to day level and from a betting standpoint these major races have very little affect on me. However, from the standpoint of a fan of the game, which I am, I hate to see the BC further marginalize racing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

People are " bitching ", Chuck, because it's a topic of interest. The BC has run roughshod over major racing to the point of making a year of once historically great racing almost superfluous. Luckily, these new races won't make many races meaningless because there are absolutely no races to substantiate them.

It is the BC that named themselves the " World Championship " races and now they are making supposed championships for divisions that barely exist and only do so at a very mediocre level. We have every right to bitch about how preposterous they are.

None of this particularly affects me personally as I deal with racing on a day to day level and from a betting standpoint these major races have very little affect on me. However, from the standpoint of a fan of the game, which I am, I hate to see the BC further marginalize racing.

I think it's funny that you continue to take the word "championships" so literally in this case.

I still cant see how a fillies turf race or turf sprint hurts the sport or marginalizes it. It is not like Saratoga is going to flip the Hopefull with the With Distinction or drop the Forgeo for a turf sprint.

[blackthroatedwind]

Just pointing out how full of sh it they are. I didn't claim they were championship races.....they did.

The money would be better spent elsewhere.....a lot better spent.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just pointing out how full of sh it they are. I didn't claim they were championship races.....they did.

The money would be better spent elsewhere.....a lot better spent.

Compared to where a lot of it($$$) has been going these races are almost the equivalent of charities

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think it's funny that you continue to take the word "championships" so literally in this case.

I still cant see how a fillies turf race or turf sprint hurts the sport or marginalizes it. It is not like Saratoga is going to flip the Hopefull with the With Distinction or drop the Forgeo for a turf sprint.

Somewhere, someone probably said that about the Marlboro.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Somewhere, someone probably said that about the Marlboro.

The Marlboro was a sponsorship race that ended when Marlboro pulled out

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

La Traviata, Dream Rush, and Diamond Stripes off the top of my head.

Whether Diamond Stripes ever "ran" on Saturday is up for debate but he certainly at least left the starting gate. For the two fillies not running in the BC Sprint was probably the best thing that could have happened to them. They were toasted by much cheaper speed in the FM Sprint and had no business against the boys.

In the case of Corinthian and Discreet Cat both would have likely skipped the BC altogether to run in the Cigar Mile if the races hadn't been added. I think the Cigar Mile suffered more than any BC races did cause of the additional three races.

[otisotisotis]

wow...just.....wow!

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who besides maybe Corinthian or Discreet Cat ran on Friday instead of Sat?

The fact that the long turf races were underfilled may have been more of a contributor to the handle decrease.

I thought he meant more a dilution in the sense that the BC wagering dollars were spread out across two days instead of one. Clearly most people who bet on the first day and lost had less to wager on the second day. just my guess. It was true in my case anyway.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I thought he meant more a dilution in the sense that the BC wagering dollars were spread out across two days instead of one. Clearly most people who bet on the first day and lost had less to wager on the second day. just my guess. It was true in my case anyway.

Actually I meant it the way Chuck interpreted it....but your comments may make more sense.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually I meant it the way Chuck interpreted it....but your comments may make more sense.

weather and a lack of good horses..imo.. if the product is good enough we will bet..hell look at the delta crock pot..im also thinking s.a. will attract a better euro contingent.. thus bringing a "hatton" like pump to the pools but win and your in must go.........

[Cannon Shell]

Maybe I am being naive but why the all personal anomisity toward the Breeders Cup? I understand what many of you are saying but the fact is the ship has sailed on mny of these subjects like the over focus on the Breeders Cup to the detriment of some traditional races. It is like bitching about the DH in baseball or 3 point line in basketball.

As an owner/trainer I can say that it is hard not to appreciate the addition of a turf sprint or 2 year old filly turf race. I'm sure many of you would think the same if you owned a horse that might possibly be good enough to compete in one of these new races.

As discussed in another far too long thread I can't see why anyone would bitch about the purses for these races being too big or the fact that the fields will be weak or not up to BC quality. There are tons of races that come up weak or with short fields throughout the year that no one call for the removal of. For instance most graded non turf races run in California.

The philosophical reasons behind the complaints are baffling to me. So what if we have a turf sprint champion? Or a 2 year old turf champion. Or a champion miler? What difference does it make to your bankroll or enjoyment of the game? I personally thought Matt Holiday should have been the NL MVP but he when Rollins got it I didn't say that baseball sucks and it is a conspiracy. I mean I dont agree, it was close and I hadn't thought about it until I wrote this since I am trying to think like a fan instead of a participant.

The "dirt" marathon seems like a silly idea but who really cares? There is constant harping about the shortening of the major races but when they put this kind of race in (though it seems very arbitrary and like as Andy said an attention deflector) everybody is against it or unbelieveable says it is too short.

The Breeders Cup is far from a perfect organization and some of the things they do are certainly debatable but I can only see one reason why you guys should bitch about the addition of these races and no one has brought it up yet.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe I am being naive but why the all personal anomisity toward the Breeders Cup? I understand what many of you are saying but the fact is the ship has sailed on mny of these subjects like the over focus on the Breeders Cup to the detriment of some traditional races. It is like bitching about the DH in baseball or 3 point line in basketball.

As an owner/trainer I can say that it is hard not to appreciate the addition of a turf sprint or 2 year old filly turf race. I'm sure many of you would think the same if you owned a horse that might possibly be good enough to compete in one of these new races.

As discussed in another far too long thread I can't see why anyone would bitch about the purses for these races being too big or the fact that the fields will be weak or not up to BC quality. There are tons of races that come up weak or with short fields throughout the year that no one call for the removal of. For instance most graded non turf races run in California.

The philosophical reasons behind the complaints are baffling to me. So what if we have a turf sprint champion? Or a 2 year old turf champion. Or a champion miler? What difference does it make to your bankroll or enjoyment of the game? I personally thought Matt Holiday should have been the NL MVP but he when Rollins got it I didn't say that baseball sucks and it is a conspiracy. I mean I dont agree, it was close and I hadn't thought about it until I wrote this since I am trying to think like a fan instead of a participant.

The "dirt" marathon seems like a silly idea but who really cares? There is constant harping about the shortening of the major races but when they put this kind of race in (though it seems very arbitrary and like as Andy said an attention deflector) everybody is against it or unbelieveable says it is too short.

The Breeders Cup is far from a perfect organization and some of the things they do are certainly debatable but I can only see one reason why you guys should bitch about the addition of these races and no one has brought it up yet.

because nobody will have the time to handicap all the races?

I'm not bitching about it, just making comments. I don't really care one way or the other. To me it just seems that its heading in the direction of trying to be all things to all people. Like they are adding a "Claiming Crown" aspect. also its going in the direction of that goofy Calder deal where you have backwards races, etc. In the end it seems like it might end up diluting the overall quality of the events and that we might not see the great betting opportunities like we had in the past.

Also what will the total races now be, 14? and six of them are turf races? what is the real ratio in the US of turf to dirt? 1 out of 10 maybe? Its like suddenly we have to have all these turf championships when throughout the year its much less a factor. I don't mind turf races but shouldn't the championships be supported by a regular season?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

because nobody will have the time to handicap all the races?

I'm not bitching about it, just making comments. I don't really care one way or the other. To me it just seems that its heading in the direction of trying to be all things to all people. Like they are adding a "Claiming Crown" aspect. also its going in the direction of that goofy Calder deal where you have backwards races, etc. In the end it seems like it might end up diluting the overall quality of the events and that we might not see the great betting opportunities like we had in the past.

Also what will the total races now be, 14? and six of them are turf races? what is the real ratio in the US of turf to dirt? 1 out of 10 maybe? Its like suddenly we have to have all these turf championships when throughout the year its much less a factor. I don't mind turf races but shouldn't the championships be supported by a regular season?

If the ratio was like a typical day of US racing there would be 6 -6 furlong races, 3 - 1 1/16th, 2 turf races and a few statebreds.

I believe that some of the lessor dirt stakes for 2 year olds especially at the smaller tracks may morph into turf stakes which would be a positive for racing. There are too many of the same options leading up to the BC and I think that some tracks may do like River Downs did.

The reason that a regular fan should complain about the addition of the races is that the price of attending the event/events will go up. Like virtually all other sports they will surely tie in the first day with the second and probably raise the prices across the board. Now that is something worth fighting against!

Why do fans need to fight in the first place? Any sane person would take their wagering dollar elsewhere. There is really no need to fight morons. They'll never change.

The day the industry listens to the gambler/fan and is able to implement the good ideas and not the bad ones is the day The Pale Horse comes from the Heavens and prevents anyone from enjoying the changes.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Cardus

In other words... Get over it?

Exactly.