Day that Shall Live in Infamy

[ddthetide]

for those that get it, military channel is running some shows now but 6pm they start their evening coverage. history channel also doing some shows tonight.

i have 1 uncle that was an army air corp engineer on a PBY subhunter in the atlantic. another that was in an artillery crew, that went from normandy to the outskirts of berlin. they have not told any stories until recently.

Tidefans.com has a thread today under the football section, even has some guys in iraq now posting in the thread.

THANK YOU! to our servicemen and women past and present!

[Downthestretch55]

Question:
I was told by a high school history teacher that on Dec 6, 1941, the entire US Pacific fleet was assembled in one place for only the first and ever time.
Coincidentally, negotiations with Japanese diplomats in Washington DC had "broken down".
The carriers left port (Pearl Harbor) that day, and the following morning, we know what happened, though warnings from spotters we ignored.
So...Did FDR set it up to get the USA into WWII? Like, "here's your shot, Japan, have at it."

ps: My father was an officer that served in the South Pacific as an engineer (building landing fields). Two purple hearts, malaria, jungle rot, and nightmares for many many years after.
He was one of the greatest generation. I miss him every day. He also shared this question, and said the only thing that spared the US from defeat in the Pacific was the Panama Canal.

[azerica]

Ok...you want to hear something that is really hard for me to believe? On another forum I go to, I opened a thread asking for a moment of thoughtful reflection for those at Pearl Harbor that day. A little girl, aged 10 she claims, replies to my thread..."Happy Pearl Harbor Day".

Do the schools not teach that it is not a holiday that we wish to be remembered as "happy"? I live in OK now, and wondered if I opened a thread to remember the Trail of Tears, would another child wish me happy trail of tears day without realizing it is a solemn topic? It is sad that children today [most of them] do not realize the history behind the holidays and events in their lives. Maybe the schools need to get back to basics.....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Question:
I was told by a high school history teacher that on Dec 6, 1941, the entire US Pacific fleet was assembled in one place for only the first and ever time.
Coincidentally, negotiations with Japanese diplomats in Washington DC had "broken down".
The carriers left port (Pearl Harbor) that day, and the following morning, we know what happened, though warnings from spotters we ignored.
So...Did FDR set it up to get the USA into WWII? Like, "here's your shot, Japan, have at it."

ps: My father was an officer that served in the South Pacific as an engineer (building landing fields). Two purple hearts, malaria, jungle rot, and nightmares for many many years after.
He was one of the greatest generation. I miss him every day. He also shared this question, and said the only thing that spared the US from defeat in the Pacific was the Panama Canal.

i bet you could also find people who think the lusitania was given up to get us into world war 1. of course the truth there is that the sinking didn't get us in to the war to end all wars. we didn't enter world war one until almost a year after the lusitania tragedy, when it was found that germany was trying to get mexico to invade the u.s. after our defeat by our neighbors to the south, they would reclaim texas, new mexico, etc.

i have a tremendously hard time believing that fdr would sacrifice so much to get us into the war, a war which many already wanted us in. also, keep in mind that we were no superpower. yes, we had some ships lost, but the fleet then in no way compares to now. actually most ships were salvaged and put back into action fairly quickly; the attack wasn't quite as devestating as initially thought. of course the loss of life was significant. and we hadn't had an attack on our own soil since the civil war. but for anyone to suggest that the commander in chief, for whatever reason, would sacrifice his own troops to get us in battle is ludicrous in the least.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i bet you could also find people who think the lusitania was given up to get us into world war 1. of course the truth there is that the sinking didn't get us in to the war to end all wars. we didn't enter world war one until almost a year after the lusitania tragedy, when it was found that germany was trying to get mexico to invade the u.s. after our defeat by our neighbors to the south, they would reclaim texas, new mexico, etc.

i have a tremendously hard time believing that fdr would sacrifice so much to get us into the war, a war which many already wanted us in. also, keep in mind that we were no superpower. yes, we had some ships lost, but the fleet then in no way compares to now. actually most ships were salvaged and put back into action fairly quickly; the attack wasn't quite as devestating as initially thought. of course the loss of life was significant. and we hadn't had an attack on our own soil since the civil war. but for anyone to suggest that the commander in chief, for whatever reason, would sacrifice his own troops to get us in battle is ludicrous in the least.

Danzig,
In no way do I wish to discuss the US entering WWI. Let's stay with WWII.
Many have questioned the circumstances of Dec 7, 1941. Of interest to me is that the carriers and their escorts (swift ships) left port and left-over junk from WWI remained at anchor in Pearl Harbor. It is also interesting that in the Phillipines, McArthur kept his planes grounded where they were subsequently destroyed by Japanese bombers.
FDR faced opposition to US involvement in the war in Europe. As Germany and Japan were allies (Axis), the attack by Japan created public outrage, and the declaration of war provided the entry to US participation in Europe.
In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing "ludicrous" in questioning the decisions of American leaders. In fact, doing so is called "free speech".
DTS

[Danzig]

i read your reply dts, and feel no need to bang my head against this wall. have at it.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i read your reply dts, and feel no need to bang my head against this wall. have at it.

Danzig,
One of my friends here at Derby Trail provided me with this link:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pe...315/pearl.html

I'm not asking you to "bang your head against this wall", however, in my humble view, it is much better to be informed than to remain in ignorance.
DTS

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/id/94663


having an opposing view in no way indicates ignorance, dts. i am very well read on ww 2, as well as the rest of american history. i have to say that when i read the line in the article above regarding oswald, i thought of you.

i also find it interesting (and this is the wall and my head part i was talking about) is that you are so set on our govt, by and for our people, being so evil and corrupt. no doubt your bias influences what articles you believe, or don't.
i tend to make up my mind on a case by case basis, without allowing any preconceived notions to influence what i think about any certain matters.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Question:
I was told by a high school history teacher that on Dec 6, 1941, the entire US Pacific fleet was assembled in one place for only the first and ever time.
Coincidentally, negotiations with Japanese diplomats in Washington DC had "broken down".
The carriers left port (Pearl Harbor) that day, and the following morning, we know what happened, though warnings from spotters we ignored.
So...Did FDR set it up to get the USA into WWII? Like, "here's your shot, Japan, have at it."

ps: My father was an officer that served in the South Pacific as an engineer (building landing fields). Two purple hearts, malaria, jungle rot, and nightmares for many many years after.
He was one of the greatest generation. I miss him every day. He also shared this question, and said the only thing that spared the US from defeat in the Pacific was the Panama Canal.

"I was told by a high school history teacher"

i was told by someone who thought college kids too challanging

"the entire US Pacific fleet was assembled in one place for only the first and ever time."

leaving the west coast undefended.

"Coincidentally, negotiations with Japanese diplomats in Washington DC had "broken down"."

which is why we wouldn't want any ships on the west coast.

"The carriers left port (Pearl Harbor) that day"

after someone finally figured out san diego was vulnerable to the mexican coast guard.

"ps: My father was an officer that served in the South Pacific as an engineer (building landing fields). Two purple hearts, malaria, jungle rot, and nightmares for many many years after."

i'm throwing his corpse in the pot in case anyone challanges this delusion. go ahead.

i dare you.