Whale's past post sets off alarm

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Mike Maloney, a Keeneland Race Course-based “whale,” or big bettor, who bets between $6-million and $12-million per year and as much as $10,000 on a single race, said Thursday at the Symposium on Racing and Gaming that on November 25 he bet on the third race at Fair Grounds Race Course after the race started.... MORE:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...ter-start.aspx

“What would happen if this happened at Keno,” Maloney said. “If someone could play a keno ticket after two balls were drawn, the gaming commission would close all the games until the casinos improved technology.

“The [racing] industry doesn’t address this because it costs money and doesn’t make money, but it hurts the pool and hurts the game. They don’t care because they get their commission whether people win or lose.”

Would he rather they close the pools with 2 minutes to post? It was a one time isolated incident. Get over it.

[Swale84]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...ter-start.aspx

The edge didn't help him
"Through a live teller Maloney said he then made four wagers that were similar to bets he already had made on the race. He said they were all losing tickets."

[Cannon Shell]

This is a non issue unless it is happening a lot or because someone is trying to gain an advantage by doing it. If those are the cases it is a big problem but that does not seem to be the case.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a non issue unless it is happening a lot or because someone is trying to gain an advantage by doing it. If those are the cases it is a big problem but that does not seem to be the case.

That's nonsense Chuck. It shouldn't be able to ever happen. And, the likelihood that if it happened this time that it doesn't happen other times is zero. Plus, perception is that it does happen, and that matters a great deal.

If they need to close the pools when the first horse is loaded then they should. People will learn to adjust. Any situation where the machines are open after the start is completely unacceptable.

[ninetoone]

I'd have to agree. Just because they didn't get burned, doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

I'd have to agree. Just because they didn't get burned, doesn't mean it wasn't a big deal.

It is a big deal if it was done by someone trying to gain an advantage. Otherwise it is just an equipment malfunction. If you can show that the track had substandard or faulty equipment that would be an issue.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is a big deal if it was done by someone trying to gain an advantage. Otherwise it is just an equipment malfunction. If you can show that the track had substandard or faulty equipment that would be an issue.

I think it's a big deal that it happenned period. It's an especially big deal if someone is using it to get an advantage.

It should never happen. Imagine seeing some wingnut cashing his ticket that you saw making the bet halfway through the race. Especially if he dropped 10k on it & brought your odds down.

[ShadowRoll]

Out of curiosity, how does the stop wagering mechanism work? Is it linked to the starter's gate button? If not, shouldn't it be?

[Swale84]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

Out of curiosity, how does the stop wagering mechanism work? Is it linked to the starter's gate button? If not, shouldn't it be?

Good question. I know growing up in Maine at the harness tracks the bell would never go off (shutting off betting) until horses were almost into the first turn. Huge advantage if you were betting trotters who had a propensity to break at the start

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's nonsense Chuck. It shouldn't be able to ever happen. And, the likelihood that if it happened this time that it doesn't happen other times is zero. Plus, perception is that it does happen, and that matters a great deal.

If they need to close the pools when the first horse is loaded then they should. People will learn to adjust. Any situation where the machines are open after the start is completely unacceptable.

As long as electronic technology exists there will be malfunctions. As I said if there are multiple malfunctions then it is a problem. But as long as it is an isolated occurence I cant say that it is a huge issue.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

This has come up more than once in the past seven years.
How difficult could it be to make sure all wagering is closed before the first runner gets into the gate ?
It should be ridiculously simple. The starter doesn't let any horses in the gate until he gets confirmation that all wagering has closed.
The starter gets word from the stewards. The stewards don't give the word if they have ANY DOUBT of wagering being closed.
It should be set up where someone in the chain has to lose their job if anything like this happens again.
How ****** hard is this to understand ?

How difficult is it for you to understand that the tracks are trying to get every drop of handle that they can and the fact is that people bet at the last minute. I am not condoning it at all. But I can see the bitching now when you get shut out of a big score because they closed the windows a minute early, or there is a gate scratch that effects the race dramatically and you cant cancel your ticket or bet a last minute saver. I would think aggravation caused by closing the pools prematurely would far outweigh the aggrevation caused by the pools closing late once in a great while.

[Swale84]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How difficult is it for you to understand that the tracks are trying to get every drop of handle that they can and the fact is that people bet at the last minute. I am not condoning it at all. But I can see the bitching now when you get shut out of a big score because they closed the windows a minute early, or there is a gate scratch that effects the race dramatically and you cant cancel your ticket or bet a last minute saver. I would think aggravation caused by closing the pools prematurely would far outweigh the aggrevation caused by the pools closing late once in a great while.

Agree with Chuck on this. There were numerous gate scratches at Saratoga this summer and at other tracks on a regular basis. Handle drives the game and having a favorite scratched at the gate after the windows closed would have a huge impact.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

I understand that, if people want to bet and know wagering will be closed a couple of minutes before post time it won't take very long to get used to.
And getting shut out of betting wasn't a problem when I first started playing in the early '90s. Back then the majority of my play was at the NYCOTBs, when guess what ? ............

Even though this should disqualify you from any rational conversation I will try. The problem with the "deadline" of posttime being closed is that the actual posttime is dependant on several things. One being that in cases of long lines at the windows the mutual manager will often add a minute or 2 to the posttime to try to get as much money into the pools as possible. Another being delays due to inquiries, loose horses, bad gate actors, weather, etc. What do you do if a horse gets loose with 3 minutes to post? Make an announcement that posttime will be extended? What about the players at other tracks, simulcast outlets or betting from home? How do you notify them? Or do you just close the betting and let people stand there for 5 minutes with live money in thier pockets? It is not as easy as some people make it out to be, Dude.

[Bobby Fischer]

The only problem that I have with a first-horse loaded system would be gate issues.
I would hate for my play of the week to break through the gate or even fight the gate crew loading, and be stuck holding the ticket with no way to cancel.

The perception is that some people are wagering or cancelling late. It is a problem.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

**** happens..but this guy was no 2 buck bettor.. he fires and if he got in he would really mess up any payout at a regular track let alone a 2nd tier venue

it wont happen again..they say so.. bc pick 6 anyone?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

But if the windows were closed earlier, there exists a greater chance to catching malfunctions so that they do not affect the race wagering.

But what if there were 3 a year from a sample of 100000 races? Is that worth the handle lost and people pissed off? If you show me that this happens a lot then I think it is a big problem. But I have not heard it to be an issue except once every few years. The truth is that virtually noone knows if and when this happens. Is this happening alot?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But what if there were 3 a year from a sample of 100000 races? Is that worth the handle lost and people pissed off? If you show me that this happens a lot then I think it is a big problem. But I have not heard it to be an issue except once every few years. The truth is that virtually noone knows if and when this happens. Is this happening alot?

the black box argument........

[Swale84]

Not that i'm doubting Mike Maloney's claim to be a whale, but isn't there a big difference between betting $6 million or $12 million a year? Seems like a big range to me

[Payson Dave]

It would be nice to know how often that it does happen...the appearance of more impropriety does not help the game.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If virtually no one knows when this happens, then we have a "push" here: maybe it happens more frequently than the "isolated" incidents about which we hear.

And if it does then it may be an bigger issue than I am giving it credit for