Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

So what did she get, a 100 going against a 5 horse field at Delaware? I never considered Wild Gams to be the next coming of Ruffian......what happened to her in the Filly Mare Sprint?

It doesn't change my point; the race is totally unworthy of Grade 1 status and deserves no more than Grade 3 status.

My my, apparently you don't like being wrong here. She earned her 100 plus Beyer figure with an extremely impressive stakes victory in NY.

You were wrong. We all are pretty often. Deal with it.

[parsixfarms]

The problem with the Prioress is that it is typically run about a week or two before the Azalea Stakes on Calder's Summit of Speed card - and the Azalea has a bigger purse. The competition dilutes both races. I agree with those who say that the Prioress - often viewed as a prep for the Test - is not worthy of its Grade I status; however, the Test is annually one of the best races of the Saratoga meet and fully deserving of its status.

[blackthroatedwind]

Furthermore, if you actually looked over the names of Prioress winners in the last 20 years you would see a host of Grade 1 horses winning ( and also hitting the board ). If you want to say the entire ratings system is screwed up I can understand but this race has many Grade 1 quality winners by today's standards.

Here's a few names for you......Carson Hollow, Xtra Heat, Marley Vale ( second ), Hurricane Bertie, Capote Belle, Heavenly Prize ( second ), Classy Mirage and Safely Kept.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Furthermore, if you actually looked over the names of Prioress winners in the last 20 years you would see a host of Grade 1 horses winning ( and also hitting the board ). If you want to say the entire ratings system is screwed up I can understand but this race has many Grade 1 quality winners by today's standards.

Here's a few names for you......Carson Hollow, Xtra Heat, Marley Vale ( second ), Hurricane Bertie, Capote Belle, Heavenly Prize ( second ), Classy Mirage and Safely Kept.

I agree that several of these were very talented fillies, although most of them were relatively unaccomplished at the time that they ran in the Prioress. My problem with the grades assigned is that too much emphasis is often given to the winner without looking at the overall quality of the field. (This goes against the point I just made, but since 2000, the Prioress winners have included the rather undistinguished I'm Brassy, House Party, Friendly Michelle, Acey Deucey and Wildcat Bettie B.) In many cases, even the years when there were first-class winners of the race, the field was not much more than a glorified NW2X allowance, as opposed to the Test which is like a "summit-meeting" of top 3YO fillies and which connections have long pointed their fillies.


Without regard to history our marketing by the tracks, here are a few grade Is that have fallen on hard times in recent years and should have their status reconsidered, IMO:

Alcibiades (maiden winners the past two years), Ancient Title (short fields on a BC prep weekend when many top sprinters use the Vosburgh or go in fresh), Clement Hirsch Turf (just not a strong race, perhaps due to its 10F distance with BC in a few weeks), DeFrancis Dash (post-BC impact), Gazelle (always a short field and just a few weeks after the Alabama), Gulfstream Park BC Turf (a grade I turf race on the East Coast so early in the season is questionable, at best), Lady's Secret, Sword Dancer (diluted by competition with Arlington Million), and Vanity. There are also a number of those older filly and mare races on the West Coast whose names I often confuse whose grading are undeserved.

[blackthroatedwind]

Then I guess there should be no 2YO Grade 1 races anymore ( save perhaps the BC ) as there are few early NW1X races anymore for 2YOs and most of these races are won by maiden breakers.

But, that's just more fuel for the " there are too many Grade 1s " argument.

I could argue both sides on the Prioress. I guess the bottom line is that it's the only Grade 1 at 6F restricted to 3YO fillies and the division probably deserves at least one race.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Then I guess there should be no 2YO Grade 1 races anymore ( save perhaps the BC ) as there are few early NW1X races anymore for 2YOs and most of these races are won by maiden breakers.

I'm not necessarily saying that. I have no problem with races like the Hopeful, Del Mar Futurity and Champagne having grade I status. Whether populated by maiden-breakers or not, these races typically draw the "best" maiden-breakers of the lot (i.e., Maimonides and Majestic Warrior this year, and horses like Sky Mesa in the past) and are often "championship-type" races, while the "second-tier" maiden breakers often go elsewhere for a softer spot (Sapling, Futurity). I think there is a big difference between the analysis needed for a 2YO stakes race and that for a mid-summer race for
3YOs, of either gender.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'm not necessarily saying that. I have no problem with races like the Hopeful, Del Mar Futurity and Champagne having grade I status. Whether populated by maiden-breakers or not, these races typically draw the "best" maiden-breakers of the lot (i.e., Maimonides and Majestic Warrior this year, and horses like Sky Mesa in the past) and are often "championship-type" races, while the "second-tier" maiden breakers often go elsewhere for a softer spot (Sapling, Futurity). I think there is a big difference between the analysis needed for a 2YO stakes race and that for a mid-summer race for
3YOs, of either gender.

I know you weren't saying that....sorry. I was just more trying to point out that stakes have replaced allowance races in many divisions.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Furthermore, if you actually looked over the names of Prioress winners in the last 20 years you would see a host of Grade 1 horses winning ( and also hitting the board ). If you want to say the entire ratings system is screwed up I can understand but this race has many Grade 1 quality winners by today's standards.

Here's a few names for you......Carson Hollow, Xtra Heat, Marley Vale ( second ), Hurricane Bertie, Capote Belle, Heavenly Prize ( second ), Classy Mirage and Safely Kept.

How many of those names won in recent years? Yeah, Safely Kept was a monster but that was what, 1989 or 1990? The bottom line is this race has been putrid in recent years and if it was run in any other state besides NY or California, it would be a Grade 3.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

How many of those names won in recent years? Yeah, Safely Kept was a monster but that was what, 1989 or 1990? The bottom line is this race has been putrid in recent years and if it was run in any other state besides NY or California, it would be a Grade 3.

I don't agree with you and the results don't back up your " putrid " comments. But, to each his own.

[fpsoxfan]

Can anyone hear explain why they want to continue adding BC races? Why does everything in our country have to be ruined by this "you know we have a great product here, but if we make it bigger it will be better."

I've been betting the Breeder's Cup since 1989 and have had a blast doing it.
Whether you choose to attend it, go someplace to watch it, or just enjoy the comfort of your own chair or couch, it's the best day in horse racing.
I was able to stomach the extra day this year, but to add more races on top of this is just simply moronic.

This "supersize me" culture we live in with Super Bowl Sunday pre-games that start 12 hours before the game and World Series that you have to stay up half the night to watch is just sports in general. Now it looks like the BC wants to tinker with what seems to have worked well since it's inception.