Graded Races

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

agreed.
but how do you move up the southwest and rebel...and leave the ark where it is? makes no sense.

The Rebel and the Arkansas Derby always have the same horses don't they?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The Rebel and the Arkansas Derby always have the same horses don't they?

i don't think so. seems every year horses ship in for the ark derby. but it did help the arkansas to have a graded prep at oaklawn. it's a really good series of races for three year olds, so at least it's possible to get graded earnings in more than one arky race.

as to whether the arkansas deserves to be a grade one, i just would argue the point that it shouldn't be the same level as the rebel.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think so. seems every year horses ship in for the ark derby. but it did help the arkansas to have a graded prep at oaklawn. it's a really good series of races for three year olds, so at least it's possible to get graded earnings in more than one arky race.

as to whether the arkansas deserves to be a grade one, i just would argue the point that it shouldn't be the same level as the rebel.

It just all doesn't work, the Derby field is split among 5+ preps, how can they all be G1s? Really how can any of them be G1 if the horses are split among five races? So let's call them all G2. Now the March preps for them have to be a lower grade so they have to be G3. That in turn would mean the February preps have to go down to ungraded which would mean they would have no relevance on graded stakes earnings and no one would run in them. So now we've ruined the whole Triple Crown prep season and given the trainers their excuse to wait until March to race just cause we can't have the Rebel and Arkansas have the same grade even though they have roughly the same field. Grading the Southwest was a good move, it should be relevant in getting into the Derby starting gate. Keep the Arkansas G2 and consider downgrading some (or all) of the G1 preps.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It just all doesn't work, the Derby field is split among 5+ preps, how can they all be G1s? Really how can any of them be G1 if the horses are split among five races? So let's call them all G2. Now the March preps for them have to be a lower grade so they have to be G3. That in turn would mean the February preps have to go down to ungraded which would mean they would have no relevance on graded stakes earnings and no one would run in them. So now we've ruined the whole Triple Crown prep season and given the trainers their excuse to wait until March to race just cause we can't have the Rebel and Arkansas have the same grade even though they have roughly the same field. Grading the Southwest was a good move, it should be relevant in getting into the Derby starting gate. Keep the Arkansas G2 and consider downgrading some (or all) of the G1 preps.

but by the same token, if those other big preps are gr 1, how can the ark derby not be? same purse as the fla derby. it should be on par with that one, the blue grass and the wood to name a few.
but i won't hold my breath waiting for those to get knocked down a peg, or the ark moving up.

it just seems there is no rhyme or reason to what gets graded. i also would have no problem with all preps being a lower grade than the derby. i guess i'm just looking for consistency, of which there isn't much.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but by the same token, if those other big preps are gr 1, how can the ark derby not be? same purse as the fla derby. it should be on par with that one, the blue grass and the wood to name a few.
but i won't hold my breath waiting for those to get knocked down a peg, or the ark moving up.

it just seems there is no rhyme or reason to what gets graded. i also would have no problem with all preps being a lower grade than the derby. i guess i'm just looking for consistency, of which there isn't much.

I would think the Florida Derby is a good comparison to the Arkansas Derby and should probably be the first one to go G2. Santa Anita has various preps that keep everyone seperated until the SA Derby. The Wood and Blue Grass always have several notable shippers come in from other jurisdictions. So in the case of those three the big race is a step up from the preps. In the case of the Arkansas/Rebel and Florida/FOY it is pretty much the same horses competing in the prep as in the big dance, often they even lose horses from their preps to the Wood and Blue Grass.

[slotdirt]

The Arkansas Derby has been inherently more relevant than the Blue Grass to the Triple Crown trail for a number of years now. The fact that one is still a GI, but the other can't even sniff GI status is quite telling. The Cellas can't be happy.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The Arkansas Derby has been inherently more relevant than the Blue Grass to the Triple Crown trail for a number of years now. The fact that one is still a GI, but the other can't even sniff GI status is quite telling. The Cellas can't be happy.

No more than the Rebel has been. The winners of the race is an impressive list. The second and third place horses is not an impressive list.

[NTamm1215]

As far as the other races that were awarded Grade I status go, they were all very deserving. The Just A Game, while having a compact field the last two years, has long been an excellent race on the Belmont undercard that is never short on talent. The First Lady has offered two very salty groups in a row, with Gorella edging Karen's Caper in '06 and Vacare winning a stretch battle with Precious Kitten this year. The Maker's Mark Mile was perhaps the most deserving of a Grade I as this year's field included subsequent Grade I stakes winners Kip Deville, Purim, and Sky Conqueror.

Good decisions on those in my opinion.

NT