Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Foreign participation isn't going to increase in the foreseeable future. Southern Hemisphere horses aren't going to come because they are in the midst of their own classic carnivals and most would have to supplement. The Japanese would have to supplement, too, and their purses are much bigger than ours. George Washington's fate is going to discourage Euros from trying the Classic for a bit of time. The three turf races are going to contiue to get a mix of good and second level horses, since by the end of October many of the Euros are 'over the top' (ready for a rest after a long season) or 'gone in their coats' (started growing a winter coat and presumed to have gone into a winter metabolism).

i doubt george will keep everyone else out. that's the only horse in over 20 years of trying that has lost his life. i certainly hope that the euros are made of sterner stuff. i don't see them avoiding their own turf races after dylan thomas' breakdown.

also, don't forget the races next year are on all weather. if anything, more euros will make the attempt at classic glory.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i doubt george will keep everyone else out. that's the only horse in over 20 years of trying that has lost his life. i certainly hope that the euros are made of sterner stuff. i don't see them avoiding their own turf races after dylan thomas' breakdown.

also, don't forget the races next year are on all weather. if anything, more euros will make the attempt at classic glory.

Don't forget Landseer off the top of my head.

[SniperSB23]

I'm fine with a Turf Sprint since it won't cannibilize the current races, it should be a G3 race though unless it attracts a strong foreign presence several years in a row. I have no problem with the FM Sprint going to G1, I think it should be a G1 race and not have to wait to be given that designation. It is at least as good as the G1s that already exist in that division. The Juvy Turf and Dirt Mile should be given G3 status. If they won't even apply for a G3 then they should wait the normal time and be graded accordingly.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Don't forget Landseer off the top of my head.

And the horse that Lester Piggott rode at Gulfstream, Mr. Brooks, if I recall correctly.

[Cannon Shell]

I dont understand why you guys care what grade a race is given. If they make the Juvy turf a grade 1 what is the impact on your life or the sport in general? Pretty much none unless you happen to own the winner. It just is not a big deal.

I also dont understand why anyone cares if the Breeders Cup wants to add races like a Turf sprint. So what if they have a million dollar turf sprint. It is not like they are taxing you with a higher takeout because of it. The result of the turf sprint should be the creation of another division of horses that may race past 3.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont understand why you guys care what grade a race is given. If they make the Juvy turf a grade 1 what is the impact on your life or the sport in general? Pretty much none unless you happen to own the winner. It just is not a big deal.

I also dont understand why anyone cares if the Breeders Cup wants to add races like a Turf sprint. So what if they have a million dollar turf sprint. It is not like they are taxing you with a higher takeout because of it. The result of the turf sprint should be the creation of another division of horses that may race past 3.

Very well said. I completely agree, in the grand scheme of things if you are only a bettor, whether the BC Juvenile Turf is run as a Grade I or ungraded next year means little. A full field will still almost certainly line up for the darn thing.

Also, by the way, the Summer Stakes at Woodbine on the Woodbine Mile undercard has a Canadian Grade 3. Not the same as American, but still graded.

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Very well said. I completely agree, in the grand scheme of things if you are only a bettor, whether the BC Juvenile Turf is run as a Grade I or ungraded next year means little. A full field will still almost certainly line up for the darn thing.

Also, by the way, the Summer Stakes at Woodbine on the Woodbine Mile undercard has a Canadian Grade 3. Not the same as American, but still graded.

NT

I dont think it matters much to owners, trainers, and breeders either, unless you have a horse or relative actually in the race.

[saucon17]

I would love to see a BC turf sprint. Maybe it would attract those very fast Aussie and Kiwi turf sprinters. Also Woodbine runs the Neartic Stakes a Grade 2 going 6F on the turf

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Also, by the way, the Summer Stakes at Woodbine on the Woodbine Mile undercard has a Canadian Grade 3. Not the same as American, but still graded.

NT

The Canadians assign there own grades.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont understand why you guys care what grade a race is given. If they make the Juvy turf a grade 1 what is the impact on your life or the sport in general? Pretty much none unless you happen to own the winner. It just is not a big deal.

I also dont understand why anyone cares if the Breeders Cup wants to add races like a Turf sprint. So what if they have a million dollar turf sprint. It is not like they are taxing you with a higher takeout because of it. The result of the turf sprint should be the creation of another division of horses that may race past 3.

1) Cause I'm a fan of the sport and don't want to see it further cheapened by creating more non-deserving G1 winners.

2) The more BC G1s the more likely the races start cannibilizing each other. Imagine if Hard Spun hadn't won the King's Bishop and the same deal was in place where the owner/trainer would get an additional $15 million from Darley if he won a G1 by the end of the year. In that scenario if the BC Dirt Mile was G1 wouldn't it have been a no brainer that he would have gone in that race and in turn significantly hurt the field for the BC Classic?

3) Why pay $1 million when you could draw the same field for $250,000? You would then have an additional $750,000 to spread out among the BC supplemented races across the entire racing calendar.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

1) Cause I'm a fan of the sport and don't want to see it further cheapened by creating more non-deserving G1 winners.

2) The more BC G1s the more likely the races start cannibilizing each other. Imagine if Hard Spun hadn't won the King's Bishop and the same deal was in place where the owner/trainer would get an additional $15 million from Darley if he won a G1 by the end of the year. In that scenario if the BC Dirt Mile was G1 wouldn't it have been a no brainer that he would have gone in that race and in turn significantly hurt the field for the BC Classic?

3) Why pay $1 million when you could draw the same field for $250,000? You would then have an additional $750,000 to spread out among the BC supplemented races across the entire racing calendar.

1. As a fan of the sport what are the personal ramifications of another Grade 1 race? How can 3 or 4 more Grade 1 winners take away from your enjoyment? Who is to say that a grade 1 winner will not participate in the new race or go on to become a multiple grade 1 winner?
2. 2year old turf races, a filly sprint and turf sprint would hardly cannibilize any existing races. If Hard Spun had not run in the Classic would would be different today? Nothing of substance. The fact that a guy can make an additional $15 million for winning any race on the Breeders Cup card is a good thing.
3. That logic is flawed. If there was a $1million dollar turf sprint it could be the US leg of the International turf sprint series which would certainly draw foreigners especially considering the bonus structure of that series. Spreading out $750000 out among the year long events would add far too little to these races to make any impact.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

1. As a fan of the sport what are the personal ramifications of another Grade 1 race? How can 3 or 4 more Grade 1 winners take away from your enjoyment? Who is to say that a grade 1 winner will not participate in the new race or go on to become a multiple grade 1 winner?
2. 2year old turf races, a filly sprint and turf sprint would hardly cannibilize any existing races. If Hard Spun had not run in the Classic would would be different today? Nothing of substance. The fact that a guy can make an additional $15 million for winning any race on the Breeders Cup card is a good thing.
3. That logic is flawed. If there was a $1million dollar turf sprint it could be the US leg of the International turf sprint series which would certainly draw foreigners especially considering the bonus structure of that series. Spreading out $750000 out among the year long events would add far too little to these races to make any impact.

1) More terrible G1 winners like Flashy Bull cheapens the sport to me and in turn makes it tougher to stay a fan of the sport. It is like expanding the MLB All Star rosters to 40 and then telling me a player is great because he made the All Star Game. It just cheapens the whole system. I like it that you can judge horses by what grade stakes they have won and want it to stay that way.

2) I don't have a problem with those races if they draw quality fields. I said earlier I think the FM Sprint should absolutely be a G1. It is the tweener races like the Dirt Mile or a 10f turf race that I would like to see designated as a lower grade to prevent stealing horses from other races. Put them on equal footing and it cheapens the whole event.

3) I'd love it if the race were going to be the first leg of that series and would absolutely believe that would warrant the $1 million purse and G1 status. However, I think it is more likely it would draw a field like the previously mentioned Hollywood Turf Express which you could draw for $250,000 and have $750,000 to spread to the rest of the racing calendar.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont understand why you guys care what grade a race is given. If they make the Juvy turf a grade 1 what is the impact on your life or the sport in general? Pretty much none unless you happen to own the winner. It just is not a big deal.

I also dont understand why anyone cares if the Breeders Cup wants to add races like a Turf sprint. So what if they have a million dollar turf sprint. It is not like they are taxing you with a higher takeout because of it. The result of the turf sprint should be the creation of another division of horses that may race past 3.

I could not agree more.. A lot to do about absolutely nothing..

Look at it this way...perhaps people we race, breed, and train for the new races and designations. How is that bad? Is it a bit backward I guess ,but who really cares.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Don't forget Landseer off the top of my head.

talking of euros attempting the classic, on dirt. not euro horses in all races.