AROD is MVP

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And here I always thought that Pitching was important in baseball. Chemistry didn't stop the Big Red Machine, The Yankees of the late 70's, the A's of the early 70's...

Chemistry is something to blame when teams lose...so writers have stories to write about and controversies to create. If Pete Rose had chopped Arroyos hand he would have been called scrappy.

Remember one thing about A Rod and the Yankees of 07...there would not have been a Yankees playoff appearance without him. Then who would everybody been blaming? Hate to say it to the Yankee fans but you are going to be bitching about ARod next year too because management seems oblivious to the real issues that that team has and is going to come up short again.

On one level you make a good argument on this one and probably to be more accurate the word "selfish" should be used instead of chemistry.
The A's and Reds and Yanks you speak of were never selfish teams which is actually the killer of the Sox of years gone by. There is something about these personalities that subtrack from teams as a whole because on some
level the team plays for stats and averages not to win ball games.

Dwight Evans comes to mind for the sox....Jim Rice on some level is another both actually considered for the hall of fame but both about the stats.

IMO A-Rod creates an air of "about the stats" which are temendous numbers but somehow they create a negativity with others eg Jeter's comments who I respect as a player but obviously has something going with Alex.

As another similiar example living here in DC I see Gilbert Arenas the same way with the wizzards. The guy has surgery and the team goes on a tear winning 6 straight where the announcers are saying aloud "on air"

"Somethings different with this team......they turn the ballover everybody sprints back on defense same guys, same year and all of sudden they play two way ball" Whoa I don't think you have to be a hoops junkie to understand that one....guys hustle more when they believe EVERYONE is hustling including the hibachi!! on defense.

The same thing is true about ARod he gets his like Arenas will get his 30 but he inspires no one to play hard.....Is that a felony? Of course not but it may be enough to decide championships from good seasons for a team.
When all is said and done about talent it is still about how bad do you want it....Teams have to have some above average talent but then it's about team play and effort. Of course pitching is 70 or so percent of baseball but thats a different argument about who has or had superior pitching each year. Yes the Red Sox had better pitching than the yanks this year but I am not sure that was true in 2004...either way it doesn't matter they were one out from elimination until momentum gathered and took over.

Try to tell me the Pistons of recent past that won several titles had the best talent.....ARod wold never buy into that kind of system like this.

Time will tell lets see how many titles the guy wins in his career....I really would take Lowell when you factor in the two teams and what they have right now and Im not alone here

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

On one level you make a good argument on this one and probably to be more accurate the word "selfish" should be used instead of chemistry.
The A's and Reds and Yanks you speak of were never selfish teams which is actually the killer of the Sox of years gone by. There is something about these personalities that subtrack from teams as a whole because on some
level the team plays for stats and averages not to win ball games.

Dwight Evans comes to mind for the sox....Jim Rice on some level is another both actually considered for the hall of fame but both about the stats.

IMO A-Rod creates an air of "about the stats" which are temendous numbers but somehow they create a negativity with others eg Jeter's comments who I respect as a player but obviously has something going with Alex.

As another similiar example living here in DC I see Gilbert Arenas the same way with the wizzards. The guy has surgery and the team goes on a tear winning 6 straight where the announcers are saying aloud "on air"

"Somethings different with this team......they turn the ballover everybody sprints back on defense same guys, same year and all of sudden they play two way ball" Whoa I don't think you have to be a hoops junkie to understand that one....guys hustle more when they believe EVERYONE is hustling including the hibachi!! on defense.

The same thing is true about ARod he gets his like Arenas will get his 30 but he inspires no one to play hard.....Is that a felony? Of course not but it may be enough to decide championships from good seasons for a team.
When all is said and done about talent it is still about how bad do you want it....Teams have to have some above average talent but then it's about team play and effort. Of course pitching is 70 or so percent of baseball but thats a different argument about who has or had superior pitching each year. Yes the Red Sox had better pitching than the yanks this year but I am not sure that was true in 2004...either way it doesn't matter they were one out from elimination until momentum gathered and took over.

Try to tell me the Pistons of recent past that won several titles had the best talent.....ARod wold never buy into that kind of system like this.

Time will tell lets see how many titles the guy wins in his career....I really would take Lowell when you factor in the two teams and what they have right now and Im not alone here

Basketball and baseball are not comparable in this circumstance. Are we to believe that because player A doesn't like Arod he is going to hit worse? Or a pitcher is going to give up more home Runs because of the presence of A Rod? Hell from what I hear Shilling is much more disliked than Arod.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Basketball and baseball are not comparable in this circumstance. Are we to believe that because player A doesn't like Arod he is going to hit worse? Or a pitcher is going to give up more home Runs because of the presence of A Rod? Hell from what I hear Shilling is much more disliked than Arod.

Whaattt???

To completely ignore how one players game can affect others on the team is like saying that a horse that runs an opening half in 44 seconds doesn't change a 12 F turf race or affect a deep closers game!!!

Hell Curt just won World Series and playoff games. Came up huge in the post season more than the majority of starts. ARod might as well watched the playoffs from home each year it wouldn't have mattered much. Ones clutch the other clutches his neck.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Whaattt???

To completely ignore how one players game can affect others on the team is like saying that a horse that runs an opening half in 44 seconds doesn't change a 12 F turf race or affect a deep closers game!!!

Hell Curt just won World Series and playoff games. Came up huge in the post season more than the majority of starts. ARod might as well watched the playoffs from home each year it wouldn't have mattered much. Ones clutch the other clutches his neck.....

Baseball is an individual sport, especially for position players. Basketball players need to play as a team to a far greater degree than baseball players. There is very little corelation to each players individual games. If Jeter (who played poorly but seemingly gets a pass because he only make 20 million a year) hits poorly will Posada have more passed balls?

Curt came up big despite being unpopular. Reggie Jackson's teams won despite him being disliked. The Yankees have not won for many reasons, Chemistry is not one of them.

[docicu3]

I guess I just look at any sport with multiple people as a team sport. Your point about the impact of another baseball player on another guys performance is certainly valid compared to basketball but I think you underestimate the impact of relationships and harmony. Of course talent is key, and baseball is about pitching first but clearly a guy who is flawed as I describe above can hold back a good team. We can bitch and banter about this one indefinitely but we can probably take point counterpoint elsewhere.......You can have ARod I'll take next choice...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

I guess I just look at any sport with multiple people as a team sport. Your point about the impact of another baseball player on another guys performance is certainly valid compared to basketball but I think you underestimate the impact of relationships and harmony. Of course talent is key, and baseball is about pitching first but clearly a guy who is flawed as I describe above can hold back a good team. We can bitch and banter about this one indefinitely but we can probably take point counterpoint elsewhere.......You can have ARod I'll take next choice...

Dont blame him when the Yankees falter again...

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont blame him when the Yankees falter again...

Of course he's gonna be blamed ARod will likely not be able to replicate the huge year he had last year so if he just has a great year and hits .250 in the playoffs he's gonna be held responsible.