Yikes - ATR Live

Cannon Shell · #1 11-04-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

3 dead horses within 11 days... nothing at least slightly suspicious about that? None died on the track, all due to "illness"...
I'm not guaranteeing, or even advocating foul play, but I would guess there was no deep inquiry into the deaths, by an unbiased group (none exists in racing).

Dont you think that the insurance companies that paid off these claims investigated them?

golfer · #2 11-04-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont you think that the insurance companies that paid off these claims investigated them?

Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.

Cannon Shell · #3 11-04-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.

The colic certainly should not come under suspicion because of his previous problems. The colitis X is not that uncommon. Warners brought the most questions because he had recently run a freaky race far out of character and there was never a reason given concerning his death.

Cant really compare this to humans becuase horses die from things that humans easily recover from. Also the fact that he trains over 200 horses makes it less unusual than a guy who has 20 and the same problem.

blackthroatedwind · #4 11-04-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The colic certainly should not come under suspicion because of his previous problems. The colitis X is not that uncommon. Warners brought the most questions because he had recently run a freaky race far out of character and there was never a reason given concerning his death.

Cant really compare this to humans becuase horses die from things that humans easily recover from. Also the fact that he trains over 200 horses makes it less unusual than a guy who has 20 and the same problem.

They all ran freaky races.

Freedom's Daughter dueled in an insane pace and drew off like a machine and Left Bank's Whitney was a devastating performance. He sat off a Jerkens horse who set a ridiculous pace and destroyed Street Cry among others. Street Cry was coming off his blowout ( and 122 Beyer ) of Congaree in the Foster.

golfer · #5 11-04-2007, 06:08 PM

I was not nearly as "involved" in racing back then as now (and by involved, I mean a fan), so I don't have specific information. I'm looking at this with no pre-conceived notions, I just feel it is REASONABLE to be suspicious. I don't think Pletcher's stable was that large back in 2002, but I don't know for sure.
Also, there is speculation that this was right around the time he started his relationship with Dr. Allday.

Cannon Shell · #6 11-04-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

I was not nearly as "involved" in racing back then as now (and by involved, I mean a fan), so I don't have specific information. I'm looking at this with no pre-conceived notions, I just feel it is REASONABLE to be suspicious. I don't think Pletcher's stable was that large back in 2002, but I don't know for sure.
Also, there is speculation that this was right around the time he started his relationship with Dr. Allday.

He was pretty big back then too.

HaloWishingwell · #7 11-04-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

They all ran freaky races.

Freedom's Daughter dueled in an insane pace and drew off like a machine and Left Bank's Whitney was a devastating performance. He sat off a Jerkens horse who set a ridiculous pace and destroyed Street Cry among others. Street Cry was coming off his blowout ( and 122 Beyer ) of Congaree in the Foster.

You mean a 3 furlong blowout before the race didn't make their Beyers freak out? Damn I thought these trainers were good.

Riot · #8 11-04-2007, 06:36 PM

What everyone is dancing around with their not-too-subtle insinuations is that the only explaination some buy for an unexpectedly exceptional performance by a horse is drug abuse.

golfer · #9 11-04-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

What everyone is dancing around with their not-too-subtle insinuations is that the only explaination some buy for an unexpectedly exceptional performance by a horse is drug abuse.

Absolutely NOT!! It is not the only explanation, but it is ONE POSSIBILITY.

Riot · #10 11-04-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Maybe because some of the guys who have produced instant turnarounds with horses are trainers who have served drug suspensions.

Yes, indeed, but we are not talking about those trainers.

Danzig · #11 11-04-2007, 06:15 PM

note also that left banks demise was announced in october. his initial surgery was in august. these three horses didn't die within eleven days of one another. certainly not unheard of however for more than one horse in a barn to suffer an illness at the same time.

but golfer if there is no suggestion of foul play, etc, what are you suggesting about these 'illnesses' as you put it?

golfer · #12 11-04-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

note also that left banks demise was announced in october. his initial surgery was in august. these three horses didn't die within eleven days of one another. certainly not unheard of however for more than one horse in a barn to suffer an illness at the same time.

but golfer if there is no suggestion of foul play, etc, what are you suggesting about these 'illnesses' as you put it?

You are right, 2 of them died within 11 days. Left Bank hung on for a while longer. I didn't say there is no suggestion of foul play, only that I personally have no knowledge of it, and don't want to suggest that I do. However, I do believe it is reasonable to leave open the possibility that there was.

Danzig · #13 11-04-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

You are right, 2 of them died within 11 days. Left Bank hung on for a while longer. I didn't say there is no suggestion of foul play, only that I personally have no knowledge of it, and don't want to suggest that I do. However, I do believe it is reasonable to leave open the possibility that there was.

why? i'd hate for someone to use coincidence and circumstance to infer anything about me.
i try to give people the benefit of the doubt. til there is sufficient proof of wrongdoing, i see no reason to suggest at all that there could be something funny going on.

Cannon Shell · #14 11-04-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

However, I do believe it is reasonable to leave open the possibility that there was.

It is reasonable

Riot · #15 11-04-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.

I am quite sure the insurance companies would not only demand necropsies by proven competent laboratories (gross, histopathology, toxicologic), but if any results were in question, would have a second or even a third laboratory examine the findings.