BC: Turf; FMT; Mile (PP's/Odds)

Bobby Fischer · #1 10-29-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I don't blame Johnny for the ride on Excellent Art, even though the horse should have won. I'm starting to think that the horse is very quirky, hence the reason why he now has looked unlucky in all of his defeats this season.

The horse didn't look like he wanted to change leads, which made him hang in towards the rail. Murtagh did everything he could to straighten him out, not once, but twice. If the horse had run straight, he wins.

As i say, i've now come to the conclusion that the horse is less than straight forward to ride. Maybe Spencer didn't deserve all the flak he has recieved for some of the rides he has given the horse this year?

If he returns to the track next year i will have to think twice before betting him, even though he does have a huge amount of ability.

Regarding Dylan Thomas - from an American fans point of view it was obviously a good thing that they decided to run him, as he is a horse which you guys haven't seen much. From a european view though it would have been better to scratch him. We knew he wouldn't be winning on turf that soft. That was his ninth run of the year and has been on the go since April. Someone on here said he could run five lengths below his best and still win, whether that is true or not, i'm not sure but he has run at least ten lengths below his best yesterday.

I know quite a few fans of After Market in America were hoping he'd be scratched for the same reasons.... because he didn't have much of a chance of soft turf and i respect their decision not to race the horse, even though, as a fan i would have liked to have seen him.

Yes, it was a very sporting decision from Coolmore to run him, but it must have been a very difficult one. I think they knew deep down he had no chance on that turf after a long, hard season. Fair play to them on making the tough decision, but at the end of the day i think it was the wrong one from a european fans point of view.

good run down

It isn't easy to ship to another country and win at their game - no matter how good you are.

English Channel is the best at being relatively forwardly placed and using an explosive kick. He has basically been in top form , his only loss in the past 3 or 4 was when Trippi's Storm softened him up for Grand Coutier to run a year-best effort and a perfect late run. EC still ran big in that Sworddancer.
The lack of pace and the running styles of Dylan Thomas and English Channel set it up for English Channel.

If EC shipped to England next month in a full field , he probably finishes out of the trifecta. It just isn't easy to ship and change styles and adapt.
Doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other. EC is the best 11-12 furlong American turf horse. Dylan Thomas won the Arc which speaks for itself.

Danzig · #2 10-29-2007, 06:17 PM

english channel announced as going to hurricane hall. no stud fee as yet.
ins't that where bellamy road stands?

Bobby Fischer · #3 10-30-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

english channel announced as going to hurricane hall. no stud fee as yet.
ins't that where bellamy road stands?

Do you think EC will make a good sire ?

NoChanceToDance · #4 10-30-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Do you think EC will make a good sire ?

I'm not saying he won't be a good stallion, but it's likely that his fee will be overpriced through his win at the BC.

As a good friend of mine said the other day. The only thing Dylan Thomas' defeat has done is probably push EC up from $10k to closer to $20k. That is probably true.

I'm not too familiar with his pedigree so i don't know whether he is dirt bred but better on turf, or whether he is a proper turf bred horse. If it's the later he could really struggle. I doubt the breeders in europe will be falling over themselves to use him.

brianwspencer · #5 10-30-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I'm not saying he won't be a good stallion, but it's likely that his fee will be overpriced through his win at the BC.

As a good friend of mine said the other day. The only thing Dylan Thomas' defeat has done is probably push EC up from $10k to closer to $20k. That is probably true.

I'm not too familiar with his pedigree so i don't know whether he is dirt bred but better on turf, or whether he is a proper turf bred horse. If it's the later he could really struggle. I doubt the breeders in europe will be falling over themselves to use him.

He's pretty well bred for turf. I'm hardly an expert, but Smart Strikes have had some good success running on turf over here and obviously have handled dirt as well given the recent rash of graded stakes winners from that guy.

EC's female family looks pretty green. His broodmare sire is Theatrical, and the same mare (Committed) that produced EC's dam also produced the very solid turf horse Hap and was a champion runner on the grass.

What the hell do I know? It looks pretty turfy to me, but it seems that there could be some solid dirt potential, especially with the advent of synthetic surfaces hosting traditionally "dirt" races.

NoChanceToDance · #6 10-30-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

He's pretty well bred for turf. I'm hardly an expert, but Smart Strikes have had some good success running on turf over here and obviously have handled dirt as well given the recent rash of graded stakes winners from that guy.

EC's female family looks pretty green. His broodmare sire is Theatrical, and the same mare (Committed) that produced EC's dam also produced the very solid turf horse Hap and was a champion runner on the grass.

What the hell do I know? It looks pretty turfy to me, but it seems that there could be some solid dirt potential, especially with the advent of synthetic surfaces hosting traditionally "dirt" races.

Well from what i have been reading, Smart Strike has had a good year (EC apart). If they don't price him too high, breeders might really like him in his first season just to get through to Smart Strike. That said, it doesn't always work like that. Over here, Cape Cross has been getting very good mares for the past two or three years, even though Green Desert is cheaper himself, i believe. No doubt the mighty Ouija Board has something to do with that, though.

My guess is that his fee will have rocketed from winning the BC turf.

GPK · #7 10-30-2007, 05:20 PM

They need to send Megahartz to EC next year. Will be the smallest race horse ever ...13 hands maybe

Danzig · #8 10-30-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Do you think EC will make a good sire ?

no

GPK · #9 10-30-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

no

Why is that Deb?

Danzig · #10 10-30-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

Why is that Deb?

turf horses are always up against it in this country. then there's the farm he'll be standing. also just the incredible amount of competition out there. you have got to have plenty of support for a stallion to make it, will he have that? odds are against him being a success. it's tough, and in ky is that much tougher--and at a pretty new farm as well. where will his mares come from? how many have they got to support him? who is in the syndicate? the fact that he's going there i feel speaks volumes about demand for his services.

Cannon Shell · #11 10-30-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

turf horses are always up against it in this country. then there's the farm he'll be standing. also just the incredible amount of competition out there. you have got to have plenty of support for a stallion to make it, will he have that? odds are against him being a success. it's tough, and in ky is that much tougher--and at a pretty new farm as well. where will his mares come from? how many have they got to support him? who is in the syndicate? the fact that he's going there i feel speaks volumes about demand for his services.

Good points and he was small which does not help. 1 1/2 turf horses do not usually do great here.

Scav · #12 10-30-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

Why is that Deb?

Your boy's new home doesn't even have a website. You better book a ticket to Korea so you can go see him in a couple years.

GPK · #13 10-30-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Your boy's new home doesn't even have a website. You better book a ticket to Korea so you can go see him in a couple years.

I know...I was checking it out last night. They got Bellamy Road and Artie Hang...I mean Schiller showing up there. Bootleg...

Cannon Shell · #14 10-30-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Do you think EC will make a good sire ?

I would be skeptical of his chances and he will have to be really good considering where he will be standing.