George Washington???

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I don't know what to say. Other that we have lost a very talented horse.

Was it anyone's fault? We don't know and we never will.

My honest opinion? I was surprised when they said they were running in the Classic when they decided to bypass what seemed like an easy Champion Stakes at Newmarket last weekened (i think he would have won that).

Was it the sloppy surface that caused this? Again, we don't know. It certainly didn't help. Now, i've only been watching American racing for about three years, but i am failing to think of a time where i have seen a dirt track looking as bad as that (there, probably have been, but i've never seen one).

What worries me is that the actual injury was an open fracture to BOTH sesamoid bones. I'm no vet, but that isn't a common injury. It just makes people ask questions.

I don't blame Coolmore for bringing him back to the track after a failed time at stud. What else were they going to do with him? However, i didn't agree that they decided to send him back for the classic.

Can anyone tell me, what are the different characteristics of a fast and sloppy dirt track? What does it feel like to ride on? Other than the kickback, is it much different or almost the same? He was under pressure after a few furlongs, was he feeling something or was he just not good enough? For a horse that travels so well in his races and travelled so easily in the Classic last year that was surprising.

Truth is, i'm struggling to come to terms with the fact he is gone. He deserved so much more than this. He gave me one of the best days of my life when he won the 2,000 Guineas and i got to spend a bit of time with him and Horatio Nelson after the race along with some of the staff at Aidan's. My two favourite horses over the last few years and they both die on the track. How unlucky can you get.

I just feel sorry for Aidan and his staff right now. They all treated George like he was a king. He was a real character, he wasn't an easy horse to be around, but that is why they loved him.

I can understand why people are trying to find someone to blame, it's just natural. Do i think there is anyone or anything that should be blamed? I'm not sure. One thing i will say is that brave decisions are often ones that go with huge risk.

RIP George, thanks for the memories.

it's not uncommon. don't forget teuflesberg just had surgery to repair both sesamoids in his leg. they think the second was fractured when he escaped the handlers while waiting for the ambulance.
the reason george was euthanized immediately was that he dislocated the joint, as well as suffering an open wound. the dislocation cut off blood supply, and of course the opening introduced dirt to the wound. either one of the two would mean no chance for the horse.

but i do know how you feel about losing george yesterday. there are some big pine island fans on this board, we went thru this last year.

[Cajungator26]

I'll be completely honest and say that this kind of thing is taking its toll on me. Too many losses on the track this year and it's not good for the sport.

RIP George.

[NoChanceToDance]

I know many like me saying this, but i just can't help but think about the surface. It was more than likely just a tragic accident and could well have happened anywhere. But, this horse isn't a dirt horse and he hasn't been prepared on it. GW would never have seen a surface like that before, let alone stood on it.

My opinion counts for little, but i'm surprised they run both Dylan and George yesterday. I must say it isn't like Coolmore to run horses when they know their horses are going to struggle on, so i did find it very surprising.

He's gone, and no amount of arguing or discussing is going to bring them back. He didn't deserve this, especially not in a race he had no chance in.

Over here their have been many arguments about horses losing their lives (mosting in steeplechase racing) because they have run in races out of their depth. The same argument could be said here, it must say. He tried, but from an early stage something was wrong. He usually travels so well. The vet said these injuries usually happen as a result of horses being very tired.He was out of his depth and had never raced on anything like that before, because of that he paid with his life.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, i know.

[Danzig]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=41655

NoChance, you're going to drive yourself nuts.

[RolloTomasi]

No chance of what?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No chance of what?

i was talking to No Chance, he's going to drive himself mad over this.
that link i posted was about george before the bc, and his gallop over the muddy track. aidan seemed happy with how he was looking going in, and no concerns.
like i said, unless this horse was unsound, i don't see that anyone should point a finger at anyone.

[NoChanceToDance]

I'm just going to say that hindsight is a wonderful thing. You say that afew weren't liking the surface either, but George was struggling after three furlongs. After going six furlongs he was only going to finish last.

I know that Aidan was happy with the track on Friday morning, but they hadn't had much rain by that time. The track was muddy, but it wasn't too bad.

As i said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I'm not the only one who thinks he should have been scratched and that includes both europeans and Americans. The slop was never going to suit him, and althought it probably the reason for his tragic brake down. If he hadn't have run it wouldn't have happened.

I know there was a big concern on the day about the track, a concern about both tracks.

[RolloTomasi]

several others didn't handle the course well either. should they all have pulled up? or just george, because his jock knows something bad is going to happen?

Not necessarily, but it wouldn't have been frowned upon either. Plenty of horses have pulled up in the BC when hopelessly beaten (eg Gentlemen, David Junior, Go and Go, Home At Last, etc).

However, of all the horses that failed to handle the main track yesterday, George Washington was the one traveling most conspicuously to the point where the possibility that something was amiss other than the surface came in to play.

he was already slowing down. i don't believe the jock was riding him at the point that the injury occurred.

I don't blame Kinane for what happened. Like I said, he probably assumed it was the surface that was causing the horse's poor action (and maybe it was). However, the fact that he wasn't driving on the horse when he broke down actually suggests that injury started much earlier in the race.

hell, horses have been out for a routine gallop, not even a work, and suffered catastrophic injuries.

That's totally unrelated to what happened here, but 9 times out of 10, horses that breakdown galloping have pre-existing injuries. I'm not going to suggest that's the case with George Washington.

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

If he was traveling as poorly in the Mile as he was in the Classic, it would have been better to pull him up there, too. In fact, maybe it would have tipped Kinane off better, if it was a type of going he knew the horse could handle.

this is why so many said thank goodness go for wand didn't run in the classic vs males, like so many wanted. her owner and trainer would have been torn to pieces.

Weren't they after the Distaff?

[RolloTomasi]

as for kinane, that horse took a bad step late in the race. he wasn't lame all the way around.

George Washington was clearly uncomfortable down the backstretch, and it was noted by Trevor Denman during the race call. It's hard to determine if was injured at that point or he simply wasn't handling the track. I suppose, given the conditions, that Kinane supposed the latter.

However, either way, he was completely out of contention and going nowhere before the far turn, why didn't he just pull up?

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

as for kinane, that horse took a bad step late in the race. he wasn't lame all the way around.

George Washington was clearly uncomfortable down the backstretch, and it was noted by Trevor Denman during the race call. It's hard to determine if was injured at that point or he simply wasn't handling the track. I suppose, given the conditions, that Kinane supposed the latter.

However, either way, he was completely out of contention and going nowhere before the far turn, why didn't he just pull up?

You will be hounded for this post by others, but i agree with you 100%

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

as for kinane, that horse took a bad step late in the race. he wasn't lame all the way around.

George Washington was clearly uncomfortable down the backstretch, and it was noted by Trevor Denman during the race call. It's hard to determine if was injured at that point or he simply wasn't handling the track. I suppose, given the conditions, that Kinane supposed the latter.

However, either way, he was completely out of contention and going nowhere before the far turn, why didn't he just pull up?

several others didn't handle the course well either. should they all have pulled up? or just george, because his jock knows something bad is going to happen?
he was already slowing down. i don't believe the jock was riding him at the point that the injury occurred. hell, horses have been out for a routine gallop, not even a work, and suffered catastrophic injuries.

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

this is why so many said thank goodness go for wand didn't run in the classic vs males, like so many wanted. her owner and trainer would have been torn to pieces.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

I think this is very true- I think it's human nature, when something awful happens to a completely innocent party, to try to find someone or something to blame- within minutes of Barbaro's breakdown, people were screaming about the inhumanity of the Triple Crown- the same series of races Curlin and Hard Spun ran in and went on to run 1-2 in the Classic yesterday.

St. Liam was retired to stud and suffered a catastrophic injury on the way back to his paddock. If he'd been raced one more year would he still be here? If Sunday Silence hadn't been moved to Japan would he have not developed laminitis? If Ruffian had run against the boys would there have been no Match Race? If Swale had been galloped five minutes earlier or later would he have not had a heart attack?

I'm not intending to criticize those who are angry- I just think that bad things happen sometimes for no reason at all. And I think that's scary and frustrating because it's unfair and so we look for someone, something, to blame, so we can feel angry and not sad. Because grief hurts. A lot.

I think the owners, in this case, did what many of us want owners to do- be sportsmen- they brought back to the races a superstar horse who wasn't succeeding at stud and put him in a very challenging spot in that last race, rather than looking for a soft berth. It's terrible it ended the way it did. But I don't think it was the mud or the spot or bringing him back or anything other than bad luck.

(Which is not to let the owners off the hook for retiring HRE in GW's place, or for rushing GW off to stud in the first place, but that's a whole different issue). RIP, Gorgeous George, and my condolences and sympathy to all of your connections.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think this is very true- I think it's human nature, when something awful happens to a completely innocent party, to try to find someone or something to blame- within minutes of Barbaro's breakdown, people were screaming about the inhumanity of the Triple Crown- the same series of races Curlin and Hard Spun ran in and went on to run 1-2 in the Classic yesterday.

St. Liam was retired to stud and suffered a catastrophic injury on the way back to his paddock. If he'd been raced one more year would he still be here? If Sunday Silence hadn't been moved to Japan would he have not developed laminitis? If Ruffian had run against the boys would there have been no Match Race? If Swale had been galloped five minutes earlier or later would he have not had a heart attack?

I'm not intending to criticize those who are angry- I just think that bad things happen sometimes for no reason at all. And I think that's scary and frustrating because it's unfair and so we look for someone, something, to blame, so we can feel angry and not sad. Because grief hurts. A lot.

I think the owners, in this case, did what many of us want owners to do- be sportsmen- they brought back to the races a superstar horse who wasn't succeeding at stud and put him in a very challenging spot in that last race, rather than looking for a soft berth. It's terrible it ended the way it did. But I don't think it was the mud or the spot or bringing him back or anything other than bad luck.

(Which is not to let the owners off the hook for retiring HRE in GW's place, or for rushing GW off to stud in the first place, but that's a whole different issue). RIP, Gorgeous George, and my condolences and sympathy to all of your connections.

yeah, it is human nature to find a reason why. randomness isn't enough to explain things.