How would The Classic have been...

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The '05 and soon to be named '07 Horse of the Year both were trained by guys who served fairly lengthy suspensions during their championship season.

In my opinion - Saint Liam (rest in peace) was a horse who wouldn't have been near as dominant for most competent trainers. I believe Curlin, on the other hand, would be.

Dutrow is the best move-up artist at the top level the East has to offer.

If you remember out West - some red-hot Turf Paradice trainer named Jeff Mullins ran a very troubled and narrowly beaten 3rd at big odds with a horse named Lusty Latin in the '02 Santa Anita Derby.

Mullins proceeded to win each of the next three Santa Anita Derby's with crazy longshots.

I'm personally skeptical of how accomplished some of these horses would have been in the hands of competent trainers who aren't move-up artists.

Just to add, Lusty Latin ended up running for cheap tags for every Juice guy in the mid atlantic.

[cmorioles]

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

Really? How do you know?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Really? How do you know?

Of course I don't know, it is an opinion. But the numbers rarely lie, and Curlin has been consistently faster than Invasor.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Of course I don't know, it is an opinion. But the numbers rarely lie, and Curlin has been consistently faster than Invasor.

Numbers lie all the time...look at lawyer ron.

Wasnt bernardini consistently faster as well?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Numbers lie all the time...look at lawyer ron.

Wasnt bernardini consistently faster as well?

when did they start giving out trophies for best numbers??

would have been nice to have invasor out there. he never did get enough credit for everything he did.

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Numbers lie all the time...look at lawyer ron.

Wasnt bernardini consistently faster as well?

yeah, but fraudardini sucked.
curlin certainly would have given invasor a tougher battle than old bernarfraudi did, but as to who would win between invasor and curlin, i think it is tough to say. if they raced 10 times i think they would each win a few, but i don't think invasor could have beaten curlin yesterday. he ran brilliantly.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by avance2000

yeah, but fraudardini sucked.
curlin certainly would have given invasor a tougher battle than old bernarfraudi did, but as to who would win between invasor and curlin, i think it is tough to say. if they raced 10 times i think they would each win a few, but i don't think invasor could have beaten curlin yesterday. he ran brilliantly.

hard to take your observations seriously when you start by saying bernardini...oh, i'm sorry, fraudardini sucked.
altho i wasn't one who thought the horse walked on water, he certainly didn't suck. far from it.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Invasor would not have beaten Curlin.

I would have loved to see it. I think in the Dubai World Cup Invasor would have had at least a 119 Beyer if they produced figures so he was certainly capable of going that fast. Also, no one ever looked Invasor in the eye in the stretch and then beat him which we have seen happen to Curlin.

[GenuineRisk]

I can't help but wish the legal issues don't resolve soon- the longer they take to resolve, the longer Curlin will keep running, I hope!

[Thunder Gulch]

I think Bernardini was the same as Curlin and Invasor waxed him. Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.

[SOREHOOF]

Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.[/quote]
Curlin faced tougher horses than Bernardini. Curlin is no INVASOR though. If he races next year we'll see how he stacks up.

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I think Bernardini was the same as Curlin and Invasor waxed him. Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.

Bernardini did not even run in the Derby.
And he was had a very diff. running style compared to Curlin.
Curlin and Invasor ran the same type of race.
Bernardini did not face any horse as good as Street Sense
or Rags in his TC races.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Bernardini did not face any horse as good as Street Sense
or Rags in his TC races.

Bernardini only ran in one triple crown race....

And Invasor might have faced better horses than Street Sense in Uruguay.



.... My bad, no sense baiting ARyan since he's surely fixated on a lame Red Sox game.

[SOREHOOF]

It SHOULD take a career best to win the BC Classic!

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Bernardini only ran in one triple crown race....

And Invasor might have faced better horses than Street Sense in Uruguay.

.... My bad, no sense baiting ARyan since he's surely fixated on a lame Red Sox game.

I forgot about that, he did not go in the Belmont.

Curlin had a full plate and performed wonderfully.
A lot was asked of this horse and he came through.
This animal was definitley not pampered.

[Charismatic1]

I am no fan of the horse, but I felt that Curlin was probably the best three-year-old of the bunch going into Saturday. However, I didn't think he'd stamp himself as far and away the best horse in the race. His performance was awesome and left no room for excuses.

Having said that, there is no horse I have seen in my 10 years of racing "fanhood" that was as good a classic horse as Invasor. He could win from anywhere regardless of the track, trip, or bias. He had all the tools. The reason he doesn't get the uninhibited respect he deserves is because he didn't burn the stopwatch or win by 10 beautiful lengths like others we have drooled over in the past. Instead, he always showed up. He had tons of talent, but he had the rare intangibles as well. Because of that, the one thing I learned in watching his career is that no matter the situation or the competition, he will always get the job done. So, regardless of how brilliant and incredible I think Curlin's Classic was on Saturday, I firmly believe Invasor would have found a way and joined Tiznow in Classic lore had he stepped onto the Monmouth track Saturday.

As a side note, I may become a very big Curlin fan if he returns as a 4yo. I'd like to find out.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I think Bernardini was the same as Curlin and Invasor waxed him. Actually, Bernardini was more dominant through the summer than Curlin by a wide margin.

Curlin's performance in the BC Classic was obviously better than Bernardini's.

This isn't about who is better than who - Invasor only beat a hanging Sun King by a head in the Whitney when he had difficult circumstances.

With any kind of circumstances he would have needed a career best race to beat Curlin yesterday.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Curlin's performance in the BC Classic was obviously better than Bernardini's.

This isn't about who is better than who - Invasor only beat a hanging Sun King by a head in the Whitney when he had difficult circumstances.

With any kind of circumstances he would have needed a career best race to beat Curlin yesterday.

or vice versa

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

or vice versa

Curlin, a 3-year-old making just his 9th career start...and 3rd start off of a layoff was probably more likely to deliever a career best race than a 5-year-old.