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Old 07-21-2006, 11:44 AM
Pedigree Ann's Avatar
Pedigree Ann Pedigree Ann is offline
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Stallion statistics from Brasil tend to be segregated by track; when I pulled up this year's statistics from Sao Paolo (Cidade Jardim), at the top of the sire's list was Romarin and at the the top of the sires of broodmares list was Minstrel Glory. Oddly enough, neither is in the top twenty at Rio (Gavea). Still, it is an indication of quality. You may not recall Romarin as a top turf miler (8f-9f) in this country in the mid-1990s; won the Early TImes Classic on Derby Day, etc. But he was also second in the Derby Paulista at 12f back home.

Minstrel Glory was not that good a runner, probably had soundness problems since he made only 11 starts in 3 years of racing. Had two wins and a 2nd in the Westchester H (G3) at Aqueduct. He sired some decent runners but seems to be better as a sire of dams. I don't have as much data about Uruguayan bloodlines as I do Brasilian ones; this female side is a lot Uruguayan and it doesn't tie in to any of the classic winners I have catalogued. The sire of the second dam Heathen stood in Uruguay and got the top horse Hampstead before being exported to Brasil. The sire of the second dam Snow Puppet was a full brother to a local Triple Crown winner at La Plata in Argentina named Snow Gambler - the Snow Cat over Claro cross was a really potent one. The next dam was by Granado, who is unfamiliar to me, but his sire Uranio I know as an excellent classic sire, as was Ruler, the sire of the next dam.

All things considered, I would say that this would be more of a miler pedigree. I would agree that this pedigree is a bit 'lighter' in quality, espeically on the female side, than the colt's.
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Old 07-21-2006, 11:52 AM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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What a resource this place is for a person with a pedigree question! Man those are great responses people.
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Old 07-21-2006, 11:58 AM
fmc123412 fmc123412 is offline
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Simply awesome your answer Pedigree Ann!

Thank a lot!! It will be very helpful!!

Thank you Bold Brooklynite, too!!
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:18 PM
Pedigree Ann's Avatar
Pedigree Ann Pedigree Ann is offline
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Tell you what - I'll tell you about pedigrees if you will help me improve my handicapping. I can pick up the rare gem (Siphon City) but can't do it consistently, like some of you.
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:35 PM
eurobounce
 
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Could you imagine going to the track with Ann. Shoot, you would have every angle possible. That would be too much fun.
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:01 PM
Pointg5 Pointg5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
Could you imagine going to the track with Ann. Shoot, you would have every angle possible. That would be too much fun.
No offense, all of that pedigree information is great and you obviously have to be intelligent to have that much info, but I don't really see how that would help you, given possible pace scenarios, how fast a horse may actually be or multiple other factors.

Again, no slam on Ann, but what good would it do you to know that so and so is a great great grandson of so and so. I guess you could say that based on breeding they may only go run so far or excell at longer distances, but until they actually do it, you do not really know what they will do...
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:12 PM
sumitas sumitas is offline
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True, but in the Belmont the 4 best pedigrees, imo prior to the race, finished in the top 4 spots.

Sometimes a pedigree can translate into a handicapping factor. But I would not place it foremost on the list. I'd say form cycle and documented speed are primary, in general.
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:18 PM
fmc123412 fmc123412 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
No offense, all of that pedigree information is great and you obviously have to be intelligent to have that much info, but I don't really see how that would help you, given possible pace scenarios, how fast a horse may actually be or multiple other factors.

Again, no slam on Ann, but what good would it do you to know that so and so is a great great grandson of so and so. I guess you could say that based on breeding they may only go run so far or excell at longer distances, but until they actually do it, you do not really know what they will do...
I think that pedigrees tell the probability a horse can perform on a certain distance or surface compared to other horses....so imo its extremely useful for both auctions or handicapping on unraced and lightly raced 2yo/3yo colts and fillies starting their careers
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Old 07-21-2006, 02:18 PM
eurobounce
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
No offense, all of that pedigree information is great and you obviously have to be intelligent to have that much info, but I don't really see how that would help you, given possible pace scenarios, how fast a horse may actually be or multiple other factors.

Again, no slam on Ann, but what good would it do you to know that so and so is a great great grandson of so and so. I guess you could say that based on breeding they may only go run so far or excell at longer distances, but until they actually do it, you do not really know what they will do...
Oh pedigree plays an important role in handicapping for me in certain races. Comes in handy the most when you are capping 1st time starters. Also comes into play when handicapping off tracks. That is why you will see the off spring of Unbridled get hammered when the dirt track is off. Now, just a normal 1 mile dirt race worth $15k then it doesnt help. But combine the handicapping side and the pedigree side could form a very powerful combination.
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Old 07-21-2006, 02:53 PM
Bold Brooklynite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointg5
No offense, all of that pedigree information is great and you obviously have to be intelligent to have that much info, but I don't really see how that would help you, given possible pace scenarios, how fast a horse may actually be or multiple other factors.

Again, no slam on Ann, but what good would it do you to know that so and so is a great great grandson of so and so. I guess you could say that based on breeding they may only go run so far or excell at longer distances, but until they actually do it, you do not really know what they will do...
Absolutely right ... lots of "inbred 4x5" mumbo-jumbo ... but not a scintilla of practical advice.

My advice ... and the advice of others on another thread ... was much, much more useful.
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  #11  
Old 07-21-2006, 02:50 PM
Bold Brooklynite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmc123412
Simply awesome your answer Pedigree Ann!

Thank a lot!! It will be very helpful!!

Thank you Bold Brooklynite, too!!
You're most welcome.

(See, Pedigree Ann .. that's how to be "gracious" ... why not give it a try on the "Broodmare" thread?)
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