Parallel universes exist

[Mortimer]

I thought this topic was swell and that it would get a lot more play than it has.

I'm very surprised at you...Mr. Garden.......aren't there any theoretical bones in your body???


I find it fascinating.......but need the inspiration of others to play off.




I'm also surprised Dannie's Dangling Feet aren't in here.

Originally Posted by Mortimer

I'm very surprised at you...Mr. Garden.......aren't there any theoretical bones in your body???


I find it fascinating.......but need the inspiration of others to play off.

Ok.
You asked for it,
you got it sister.

I believe human beings are extremely limited in
their ability to know. Our entire experience is severely
limited by our senses. We really were not meant to know
most of the things we do. Mere hunter-gatherers for
most of our life history pontificating on parallel universes?
I fart in our general direction.

So much of what we learn is by the use of symbolism with
a mixture of metaphor. Examples... its like a ball rolling down
a hill... Imagine a drop of water impacting a pool of still water and look
at the waves emerge... Its like a mouse trap that is half set...
and on and on with the metaphors.

Well most of what happens at lets say the atomic level, is
way beyond our experience and senses that entertain us
on the level of the large. Imagine a particle that exists at
two places at the same time... one particle.
Oh heck, thats just fine, I have constantly witnessed
that model.
NOT.

Or on the level of the vast. Imagine a place in the universe
that is the size of a pin-head but has the mass of 1 million
suns. Its so massive that it bends the space time around it.
Oh yes that is an easy one to imagine Dr. Hawking. And the
good Dr. responds but the math tells us its so. And it fits
some observations. So now we must have math to imagine
it. And jsut where did the math come from? Is the math flawed?
It certainly is. Just read Mr. Curt Godel.

So we have these humble little creatures called humans made
for roaming around grassland areas that are basically trying to
understand stuff we were never meant to understand from
an evolutionary point of view. We have done a damn good job
of predicting stuff that can shows itself to us rather blantantly
and fits nice math models. But when that breaks down we are
lost. Being a stubborn lot we do not care and forge ahead
constantly trying to understand more. The models change
with new information, but is it largely an exercise in futility.

And for that I am glad. Its always fun when there is another
mountain to climb. But the mountains that we have no way
of locating, we must ignore. And there are endless numbers
of mountains that we can see. So we plod along in a very
mortal way.

And I thank you.

[Mortimer]

That was pretty good...really.



I grasp most of it I think.

But Einstein noodled like that.....pretty out there stuff for the time.....and some of it took many years to really proove..I think.


There seems to be parallels to the theoretical gang trying to understand all this which is so hard to understand.....to God who supposedly said not to try and think nor understand as He does because we cannot.

So even though I'm pretty much an agnostic it always seems to me the curious world of science and a supreme being can come so close to the same thing.


But I like these theories because that's how the answers come....by theorizing and trying to prove them....no?




The simple size of the macro and micro overwhelm me....but so does what never started nor will ever end.I wonder if the universe ever really started or will ever really end.


Maybe it constantly expands to run away from those who want to find its secrets.



I think the existence of past ,present and future ......one could reason out it's possibility. Maybe we move through those sometimes.

Whatever it is...the soul....the thing buried below the subconscious ......that lives on...maybe.



Maybe then we find out.

But it's great exercise for the artsy part of the noodle to try and imagine your way through it.

I take it you don't go along with Stevie?

Morton I just kind of look at it this way:

We take for granted that some things are
human constructs; That is, human inventions
that are useful for communicating and
for attempting to understand.

Take Time for example. When I was young
I thought time was something real. Little did
I realize it is a human construct. If I imagine a world
in which nothing ever happens, that is no events take
place. Time breaks down. If nothing ever happens,
if no events take place,
there is no sequence of events. So time does not exist
unless things happen.

So when people ask what happened before the big bang
I say nothing. There was no such thing as time. Well they
say, what if something did happen? And I reply if something
did happen we have no evidence that it did, and never will,
so from our point of view time did not begin until the big bang.
Time is our little
way of making sense out of events.
With no events, time makes absolutely no sense.

Same thing with space. Where does it end? It ends where
nothing exists. If I imagine a "world" with nothing in it... devoid
of anything... then space has absolutley no meaning. Space
has a human definition because "things" do exist in some frame
of reference to each other. If nothing exists, space has no
meaning.

And I am not trying to be cute here.
I am not trying to confuse anyone.
Time and space are Human constructs.
We made them up. They are ideas that
only make sense in specific situations.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me and does
not bother me in the least. It freaks my
daughter out, and I am not sure why.

I never really thought about it at her age.
Time ending and beginning. I just drooled.
And when I did start thinking about it, and
reading, it seemed very clear that we are
always creating little schemes to understand.
And the schemes just dont work in certain
situations. Schemes like time and space
can only be used under specific circumstances.

[Mortimer]

It sounds like you describe true nothing...if not for humans.



I wondered a lot what happens when one dies. How can you then be nothing...if say there is no God.It's hard to comprehend being nothing......taken out of the equation completely,but if you were nothing then you woudn't know it. .....which always brought me back to the same place.

I can undertsand what you say and it does make some sense...but even without intelligence doesn't just the existence of stars and planets mean space exists....and they must go through change...over time? Even if we didn't name space and time.....woudn't they still be there...just unnamed?


There's just something too well planned about the whole thing....there's too much rythm and rhyme out there to think there isn't a reason behnd all this.It's hard to believe we just are....just happened.

So we named time time and space space..because they are things........or maybe they're the same thing.


I don't really buy the big bang thoery....because what was there before the big bang?

I guess it goes back to your idea that space nor time nor beginning has any meaning if nothing intelligent exists....or maybe you meant if absolutely nothing exists...and if that were true then there is no argument..of course.


But since that's not the case....it's back to square one. How can one ever comprehend a start...a bing bang? How can anyone conceive of a paraellel universe or the existence of the past ,present and future happening all at the same time?

I only come back to a plan...a plan of sorts in that things work in an orderly and predictable manner...those we understand.


Maybe when we do die...maybe that's when it all come together.

But I just don't think we're mistakes..I don't think anything is...it's all explainable and predictable,but well outside our comprehenison.

Maybe there will be a lightning rod effect and physics will take that gigantic leap and somethings will become clearer...but I don't think so......it's the constant turning over of thought that really is intriguing and very intersting.

Originally Posted by Mortimer

It sounds like you describe true nothing...if not for humans.



I wondered a lot what happens when one dies. How can you then be nothing...if say there is no God.It's hard to comprehend being nothing......taken out of the equation completely,but if you were nothing then you woudn't know it. .....which always brought me back to the same place.

I can undertsand what you say and it does make some sense...but even without intelligence doesn't just the existence of stars and planets mean space exists....and they must go through change...over time? Even if we didn't name space and time.....woudn't they still be there...just unnamed?


There's just something too well planned about the whole thing....there's too much rythm and rhyme out there to think there isn't a reason behnd all this.It's hard to believe we just are....just happened.

So we named time time and space space..because they are things........or maybe they're the same thing.


I don't really buy the big bang thoery....because what was there before the big bang?

I guess it goes back to your idea that space nor time nor beginning has any meaning if nothing intelligent exists....or maybe you meant if absolutely nothing exists...and if that were true then there is no argument..of course.


But since that's not the case....it's back to square one. How can one ever comprehend a start...a bing bang? How can anyone conceive of a paraellel universe or the existence of the past ,present and future happening all at the same time?

I only come back to a plan...a plan of sorts in that things work in an orderly and predictable manner...those we understand.


Maybe when we do die...maybe that's when it all come together.

But I just don't think we're mistakes..I don't think anything is...it's all explainable and predictable,but well outside our comprehenison.

Maybe there will be a lightning rod effect and physics will take that gigantic leap and somethings will become clearer...but I don't think so......it's the constant turning over of thought that really is intriguing and very intersting.

All I am saying is the ideas of time and space are indeed just ideas.
If we did not exist there would be no ideas. Its our little struggle.
And ideas are different than actual objects. If actual objects exist,
then by OUR definition, space exists. Otherwise the idea and the word
space, does not exist even though objects do.

And as far as God and human existence that relies on a completely
different type of human thought pattern. Faith. I can see why people
do believe in a God or Gods. And I can see why people dont. And of
course it makes perfect sense that many people profess not to know.

Its just the way we go about knowing. I really dont mean this to be
mumbo jumbo. I just see human beings as unique, strange little beings that
contemplate their own existence yet do not have the ability to really
understand a whole lot of different aspects of what existence means.
And that covers life, death, and God.

Sometimes the saying Man created God in his own image makes
sense to me. But not so much if one expresses some degree of
humility and recognition that we cant know everything and never
will. It really does not bother me that much because I realize
I just dont have the ability to know, or understand, all of this.
It is beyond all my models that help me navigate the world in
front of me. Its not my fault, as far as I know, even though others
would claim I should understand.

[Mortimer]

Now ...this is not a putdown nor wise guy remark..it really isn't.


I'm just kind of disappointed I go to a man of physics to get some interesting fill in on the latest theories consistng of really great "out there" stuff.........................and I get........phooey on it????

I mean that's about the size of what you said....right?




No wonder horseracing was invented.