Biancone agrees to a softer ban

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

he can't apply for a license anywhere for the whole year....after 6 months he will be allowed back on racetrack grounds (but only on the frontside, ie 'public areas')....it's not clear if, after 6 months his horses can be transfered back to his assistants (allowing him to benefit financially again) but for the first 6 months at least, the horses must go to other trainers.

so then isn't it essentially a one year ban? only the financial benefit seems shortened.
either way, it allows a repeat offender back in the sport next year. great.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so then isn't it essentially a one year ban? only the financial benefit seems shortened.
either way, it allows a repeat offender back in the sport next year. great.

today's update....there should be another article tomorrow...
http://www.drf.com/news/article/89547.html

[Cannon Shell]

Terry Finley, the president of West Point Thoroughbreds, the horse racing partnership that owns Irish Smoke, said that he was willing to let Biancone's appeal run its course and that he did not feel pressure to remove Irish Smoke from Biancone's barn prior to the settlement.

"I'll be honest with you, I didn't appreciate a lot of people in this industry crucifying the guy before he had his day in court," said Finley, a former Army captain. "That drove me nuts. I heard all the talk and innuendo. But he didn't have his shot at due process, and no matter what anyone says, this is still America."
Biancone, a native of France, trains for many powerful clients, including the principals behind Coolmore Stud, the multinational racing and breeding operation that owns La Traviata. A spokesman for Coolmore, Richard Henry, said the group had not determined who would train the Biancone horses after the Breeders' Cup.

Carl Lizza, the owner of Cosmonaut under the stable name Flying Zee Stables, said that he had not determined who will train the four Flying Zee horses currently stabled with Biancone. But he said he would not hesitate to give Biancone horses when the trainer is able to operate a stable again.

"I don't know what he did wrong," said Lizza, who called Biancone "one of the 10 best horsemen" in the U.S. "From what I read in the papers, it was just possession. He wasn't using it. Unless something else comes out, yes, of course I'll give him horses."




Still think the owners aren't the problem in this game?


Hey Terry...facts and innuendo are not the same thing...

Hey Carl...why dont you give your horses to one of the other "nine" best horseman who dont have that pesky little Cobra Venom "possesion" violation on their looooong rap sheet? What was he doing with it? Recreational use?

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Terry Finley, the president of West Point Thoroughbreds, the horse racing partnership that owns Irish Smoke, said that he was willing to let Biancone's appeal run its course and that he did not feel pressure to remove Irish Smoke from Biancone's barn prior to the settlement.

"I'll be honest with you, I didn't appreciate a lot of people in this industry crucifying the guy before he had his day in court," said Finley, a former Army captain. "That drove me nuts. I heard all the talk and innuendo. But he didn't have his shot at due process, and no matter what anyone says, this is still America."
Biancone, a native of France, trains for many powerful clients, including the principals behind Coolmore Stud, the multinational racing and breeding operation that owns La Traviata. A spokesman for Coolmore, Richard Henry, said the group had not determined who would train the Biancone horses after the Breeders' Cup.

Carl Lizza, the owner of Cosmonaut under the stable name Flying Zee Stables, said that he had not determined who will train the four Flying Zee horses currently stabled with Biancone. But he said he would not hesitate to give Biancone horses when the trainer is able to operate a stable again.

"I don't know what he did wrong," said Lizza, who called Biancone "one of the 10 best horsemen" in the U.S. "From what I read in the papers, it was just possession. He wasn't using it. Unless something else comes out, yes, of course I'll give him horses."




Still think the owners aren't the problem in this game?

the owners lost all virtue when they decided against the "inconvenience" of switching trainers before the Breeders Cup.

now it sounds like he will be allowed to train via cell-phone after all.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Terry Finley, the president of West Point Thoroughbreds, the horse racing partnership that owns Irish Smoke, said that he was willing to let Biancone's appeal run its course and that he did not feel pressure to remove Irish Smoke from Biancone's barn prior to the settlement.

"I'll be honest with you, I didn't appreciate a lot of people in this industry crucifying the guy before he had his day in court," said Finley, a former Army captain. "That drove me nuts. I heard all the talk and innuendo. But he didn't have his shot at due process, and no matter what anyone says, this is still America."
Biancone, a native of France, trains for many powerful clients, including the principals behind Coolmore Stud, the multinational racing and breeding operation that owns La Traviata. A spokesman for Coolmore, Richard Henry, said the group had not determined who would train the Biancone horses after the Breeders' Cup.

Carl Lizza, the owner of Cosmonaut under the stable name Flying Zee Stables, said that he had not determined who will train the four Flying Zee horses currently stabled with Biancone. But he said he would not hesitate to give Biancone horses when the trainer is able to operate a stable again.

"I don't know what he did wrong," said Lizza, who called Biancone "one of the 10 best horsemen" in the U.S. "From what I read in the papers, it was just possession. He wasn't using it. Unless something else comes out, yes, of course I'll give him horses."




Still think the owners aren't the problem in this game?


Hey Terry...facts and innuendo are not the same thing...

Hey Carl...why dont you give your horses to one of the other "nine" best horseman who dont have that pesky little Cobra Venom "possesion" violation on their looooong rap sheet? What was he doing with it? Recreational use?

F.uck Terry Finley for using the Captain America card.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

That's pretty pathetic and telling why the game is where it is.

I have hammered this point to anyone who would listen but people still want to blame the authorities. There is a limit to what commissions and authorities can do when the owners are willing to turn a blind eye towards a guy getting caught with a class 1 drug in the barn, ordered by his defacto private vet. Not to single out Finley but he is a member of many governing boards including the Breeders Cup board and his attitude is typical of many on these boards, in effect the people who run the game. That Tom Ludt voted against the settlement was funny seeing as his trainer is Steve Assmussen. At least Dell Hancock has been consistent.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Are you stating that the owners are demanding that trainers use this drug? More specifically, or you stating that Biancone's owners are demanding that he use this drug?

He's stating that the owners say possession is acceptable, even if use was never proven. So I can get caught with 10 kilos of coke, but as long as I'm not using it, that's OK?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

He's stating that the owners say possession is acceptable, even if use was never proven. So I can get caught with 10 kilos of coke, but as long as I'm not using it, that's OK?

You are back!

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are back!

I probably shouldn't post on this topic after drinking about 2 bottles of French wine on the flight back and zero sleep.

This is horseplop.com, right?

[Bobby Fischer]

C'est la vie...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Are you stating that the owners are demanding that trainers use this drug? More specifically, or you stating that Biancone's owners are demanding that he use this drug?

No, I dont see where you are getting that but the owners dont seem to mind when they do use it. It is like when baseball players used to police the game on the field. Preen or strut after a HR and you paid the price...so guess what? Guys didn't do it...at least more than once. Same thing here. If owners would require a trainer to live up to some form of standard concerning illegal drugs then trainers would be a lot more cautious and would not be as brazen as some of these guys are. They know that the owners will run back to them so they 'push the envelope' and then cry foul when they get caught.

[Danzig]

http://bc.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41417

transferred his horses.


wonder if the refrigerator went along as well...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I should have typed that I place the responsibility first on the trainers, and then secondly on the owners, who, like you typed, don't mind it when trainers use drugs like this.

Shouldn't the trainer say to the owner, "I'm not using (fill-in-the-blank) on your horses?" In other words, shouldn't the horse's primary caretaker set the standard, or say, "I'm not going to cheat?"

I dont follow the logic. The standard should be set by the owners because they are the ones who ultimately pay the bills and call the shots. The horses are their property. What goes into them is their business and if they choose to look the other way or accept illegal substances being used then they are as responsibile.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont follow the logic. The standard should be set by the owners because they are the ones who ultimately pay the bills and call the shots. The horses are their property. What goes into them is their business and if they choose to look the other way or accept illegal substances being used then they are as responsibile.

Chuck, it's not that simple and all of us who are in the business know that. I agree there must be accountability -- across the board. I agree there must be checks and balances. However, don't think for a second that anyone -- trainer or owner -- gulity or innocent -- would lay down. Personally, I'll discuss and debate the issue with you over a few beers anytime. I know we agree with, probably, 95% of the issues. I say debate in a friendly, constructive way.

However, if you think that a racing commission would shy away from litigating with a trainer, what about an owner -- pick a name -- who has 50 head or so, a major metropolitan law firm on retainer, and an amount of resources that only they could decide to throw at something like this.

Let's try and hold MSG or Dolan responsible for the NY Knicks roster, or Steinbrenner for that matter. Of course it's different, but look at the applicable parallel. Look at what they tried to do in Delware and before the agreement got out of the blocks, it was amended and revised -- because it wasn't going to fly an inch of the ground.

I am all for owner accountability -- 100% so. I am all for "not looking the other way" so to speak. However, you are not going to hold an owner liable for day to day operations when they delegate same to an independent contractor. If the owner knows, is involved, etc. -- then 100% they are in as much as anyone else. But if not, well, that same dog won't hunt. The court of public opinion -- here or anywhere else -- can be judge and jury. It's an interesting discussion, but that's about all it is.

BTW, give me a shout over the weekend if get a chance -- totally unrelated topic (I mean unrelated to this of course, LOL).

Eric

[Danzig]

but the owners are a problem in that they ignore what's in front of them, and keep their horses with a repeat offender trainer. how many times now has biancone been in trouble? banned in hong kong, out a year now here--yet terry finley says no sweat, i'll keep sending him horses. that is a problem, and it's a problem all over, with owners who either don't know, or don't care, or choose to ignore a problem right in front of them--because they care more about that winners circle photo then they do about the horse they're in there with! ego over the safety of horse and rider.
curlin, taken from a trainer who got him noticed, and given to the care of an almost two dozen offense trainer. why?! and given to him by two owners who supposedly want everything in this sport to be aboveboard--an oxymoron in action.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I understand that owners are culpable, of course, but when you typed, "still think that the owners are not the problem in this game," it looked like you were placing the emphasis on them, as opposed to the trainers.

By my thinkng, I wouldn't use cobra venom on a Thoroughbred and if an owner demanded that I use it, I'd walk away from the owner, that's all. And if I couldn't compete without using drugs other than what is permitted, then I'd find another profession.

I guess my logic is skewed, but I think about it from the people closest to caring for the horse, and work outward.

I am placing the emphasis on the owners because in the end THEY call the shots, not the trainers. I highly doubt any owner directly instructs a trainer to use an illegal substance. However when they continue to employ them after repeated violations aren't they in effect saying that that behavior is ok? Of course the trainers are to blame directly but the attitude of owners like the 2 quoted in the story are the reason that this will continue. The owners have the power in this business, not the trainers.

[Bobby Fischer]

However, Biancone's assistant could begin to put together a racing stable, and Biancone would be able to consult on the operation of the stable as long as he does not go to the backstretch, according to John Veitch, the Kentucky state steward.



thought the new class-A rule was against this ?