George Washington coming now?

[hockey2315]

George Washington has NO shot. . . I can't believe they're actually going to run him in the classic. . . I guess I could see sending him to the mile but this is just an attempt to squeeze another race out of a horse that they can't profit off of in the breeding shed. . .

[swedejxn]

If they go in the classic and lose... no big deal... they tried..... If they go for the mile and he loses.... could cost big bucks breeding....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by swedejxn

If they go in the classic and lose... no big deal... they tried..... If they go for the mile and he loses.... could cost big bucks breeding....

he's a stud barn reject. he's already lost any potential big bucks, as he's a blank shooter.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he's a stud barn reject. he's already lost any potential big bucks, as he's a blank shooter.

He isn't completely infertile, he is just sub-fertile. Someone i know has heard that the Coolmore boys said that they were going to test his fertility again this Autumn. Maybe they have, and maybe his 'boys' are swimming in the right direction now

He got six (i think) mares in foal. It will be interesting to see what his few progeny turn out like.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

He isn't completely infertile, he is just sub-fertile. Someone i know has heard that the Coolmore boys said that they were going to test his fertility again this Autumn. Maybe they have, and maybe his 'boys' are swimming in the right direction now

He got six (i think) mares in foal. It will be interesting to see what his few progeny turn out like.

i wonder if they'll have crooked tails??


i think he'd have to really have some good swimmers in there before they try again--all those re-dos if he is still sub-fertile. yeah, i knew they said sub- not in-, but seemed the easiest way to describe it! hell, maybe they're just shy.





odd tho, isn't it. horse named for a guy with no children, and he's sub-fertile. what are the odds?!

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i wonder if they'll have crooked tails??


i think he'd have to really have some good swimmers in there before they try again--all those re-dos if he is still sub-fertile. yeah, i knew they said sub- not in-, but seemed the easiest way to describe it! hell, maybe they're just shy.





odd tho, isn't it. horse named for a guy with no children, and he's sub-fertile. what are the odds?!

If GW (the horse) was actually human he'd be like the popular kid at school who all the kids wanted to hang out with and then all of a sudden his girlfriend told everyone he was crap in bed

I hope his progeny turn out to be very good, i'm not sure which mares he got in foal, but he would have only been given the best mares possible.

It just makes me think that maybe something has changed. He was taken out of the QEII at the last moment, same has happened with the Champion (which doesn't look like a strong race), and there hasn't really been a reason.

In my opinion it is still favourite that he doesn't turn up at Monmouth, either.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by swedejxn

If they go in the classic and lose... no big deal... they tried..... If they go for the mile and he loses.... could cost big bucks breeding....

exactly

also the same reason why i do not understand the "sporting" sentiment attached to this decision.

Seems the wrong track to take this group on.

I think this will be a great race.
Invasor's bad luck has made this interesting.
I will be very excited to get to see this one.

[King Glorious]

There is not a single horse in the Classic that I look at that I don't think has several huge question marks.

Curlin-IMO, the top 3yo this year. Just ran a huge race to beat Lawyer Ron. I think it's reasonable to wonder how much that might have taken out of him having to run so hard and also, keep in mind that he didn't look that great at Monmouth before. I know it was off of the layoff but it still must be considered.

Lawyer Ron-Obviously the top older male this year. As with Curlin, just ran a huge race to run second in the JCGC and one must wonder how much it might have taken out of him. He's also put up three straight 114+ figures and it's not easy to put up four straight for any horse. Don't like the fact that he lost to a horse that he should have beaten when last seen at Monmouth. Also, the expected strategy of letting him roll early might compromise his chances if he gets in a duel with Hard Spun up front.

Street Sense-Is he any better now than he was last year at this time? In last year's BC Juvenile, he ran a 108 figure. His last three have been 105/108/107. This coming after a 111/110 in the Derby and Preakness. He's obviously a good horse and has to be respected but I kind of get the feeling that he's not gotten any better this year. I thought he was being asked in his last and should have beaten Hard Spun but instead, when the real running started, Hard Spun put him away.

Any Given Saturday-Looked like he was ready to take the leap to the head of the class after the Dwyer and Haskell but then took three steps back in the Brooklyn. That was a very disappointing effort and it has to make anyone wonder which horse we'll see in the Classic. Even if it's the Haskell horse, that was a 113 effort; good enough to possibly win this but hardly something that should scare anyone away.

Hard Spun-Has a career high of 109 and I don't think anyone seriously believes that in a truly run race with a legit pace, he has a chance of sticking around at the finish. Lawyer Ron could be right up there with him, compromising the chances of both horses.

Tiago-Was all out to beat Awesome Gem with a 106 figure. While that figure was a career high and came on the heels of a 103 in the Swaps, neither of those figures suggest he's anywhere near the top group. I also think that his efforts in the Derby and Belmont show that same thing and make you wonder if he's just this year's version of Brother Derek; good in California but not so good outside of the state.

With a number of question marks surrounding each of the leading contenders and the prospect that even if they do run their best race, none of them are world beaters, I think now is the perfect time to send a horse like GW to the Classic. No, I do not expect him to win the race. I think that at best, he's looking at third or fourth. But I think it's worth taking a shot. They've got nothing to lose in trying this. His position in the breeding world as a world class miler is set. That would not change even if he were to win the Mile. Another loss in the Classic will not hurt that but I believe that a top five showing here could only enhance his reputation and I don't believe that is an unrealistic goal. I would feel a little different about this if I thought they were passing up a chance to win the Mile by sending him to the Classic but since they already have Excellent Art there, a horse that very well could go off favored, they are in a good position to take this kind of risk.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

There is not a single horse in the Classic that I look at that I don't think has several huge question marks.

Curlin-IMO, the top 3yo this year. Just ran a huge race to beat Lawyer Ron. I think it's reasonable to wonder how much that might have taken out of him having to run so hard and also, keep in mind that he didn't look that great at Monmouth before. I know it was off of the layoff but it still must be considered.

Lawyer Ron-Obviously the top older male this year. As with Curlin, just ran a huge race to run second in the JCGC and one must wonder how much it might have taken out of him. He's also put up three straight 114+ figures and it's not easy to put up four straight for any horse. Don't like the fact that he lost to a horse that he should have beaten when last seen at Monmouth. Also, the expected strategy of letting him roll early might compromise his chances if he gets in a duel with Hard Spun up front.

Street Sense-Is he any better now than he was last year at this time? In last year's BC Juvenile, he ran a 108 figure. His last three have been 105/108/107. This coming after a 111/110 in the Derby and Preakness. He's obviously a good horse and has to be respected but I kind of get the feeling that he's not gotten any better this year. I thought he was being asked in his last and should have beaten Hard Spun but instead, when the real running started, Hard Spun put him away.

Any Given Saturday-Looked like he was ready to take the leap to the head of the class after the Dwyer and Haskell but then took three steps back in the Brooklyn. That was a very disappointing effort and it has to make anyone wonder which horse we'll see in the Classic. Even if it's the Haskell horse, that was a 113 effort; good enough to possibly win this but hardly something that should scare anyone away.

Hard Spun-Has a career high of 109 and I don't think anyone seriously believes that in a truly run race with a legit pace, he has a chance of sticking around at the finish. Lawyer Ron could be right up there with him, compromising the chances of both horses.

Tiago-Was all out to beat Awesome Gem with a 106 figure. While that figure was a career high and came on the heels of a 103 in the Swaps, neither of those figures suggest he's anywhere near the top group. I also think that his efforts in the Derby and Belmont show that same thing and make you wonder if he's just this year's version of Brother Derek; good in California but not so good outside of the state.

With a number of question marks surrounding each of the leading contenders and the prospect that even if they do run their best race, none of them are world beaters, I think now is the perfect time to send a horse like GW to the Classic. No, I do not expect him to win the race. I think that at best, he's looking at third or fourth. But I think it's worth taking a shot. They've got nothing to lose in trying this. His position in the breeding world as a world class miler is set. That would not change even if he were to win the Mile. Another loss in the Classic will not hurt that but I believe that a top five showing here could only enhance his reputation and I don't believe that is an unrealistic goal. I would feel a little different about this if I thought they were passing up a chance to win the Mile by sending him to the Classic but since they already have Excellent Art there, a horse that very well could go off favored, they are in a good position to take this kind of risk.

none have more questions than George Washington. he'll be up the track.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

none have more questions than George Washington. he'll be up the track.

LOL. I suppose that you are right about the first part and could very well be right about the second part. But even if he is, what have they lost? Last year, he was up the track too. But he was far ahead of such horses as Lava Man, Lawyer Ron, Perfect Drift, Sun King, Suave and Flower Alley.

Where would he have to finish, in your opinion, to justify having made this attempt? IMO, a 5-6 in the Classic would be better than a 2-3 in the Mile and a top four in the Classic would trump a Mile win as far as accomplishing what they want to accomplish with him.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

There is not a single horse in the Classic that I look at that I don't think has several huge question marks.

Curlin-IMO, the top 3yo this year. Just ran a huge race to beat Lawyer Ron. I think it's reasonable to wonder how much that might have taken out of him having to run so hard and also, keep in mind that he didn't look that great at Monmouth before. I know it was off of the layoff but it still must be considered.

Lawyer Ron-Obviously the top older male this year. As with Curlin, just ran a huge race to run second in the JCGC and one must wonder how much it might have taken out of him. He's also put up three straight 114+ figures and it's not easy to put up four straight for any horse. Don't like the fact that he lost to a horse that he should have beaten when last seen at Monmouth. Also, the expected strategy of letting him roll early might compromise his chances if he gets in a duel with Hard Spun up front.

Street Sense-Is he any better now than he was last year at this time? In last year's BC Juvenile, he ran a 108 figure. His last three have been 105/108/107. This coming after a 111/110 in the Derby and Preakness. He's obviously a good horse and has to be respected but I kind of get the feeling that he's not gotten any better this year. I thought he was being asked in his last and should have beaten Hard Spun but instead, when the real running started, Hard Spun put him away.

Any Given Saturday-Looked like he was ready to take the leap to the head of the class after the Dwyer and Haskell but then took three steps back in the Brooklyn. That was a very disappointing effort and it has to make anyone wonder which horse we'll see in the Classic. Even if it's the Haskell horse, that was a 113 effort; good enough to possibly win this but hardly something that should scare anyone away.

Hard Spun-Has a career high of 109 and I don't think anyone seriously believes that in a truly run race with a legit pace, he has a chance of sticking around at the finish. Lawyer Ron could be right up there with him, compromising the chances of both horses.

Tiago-Was all out to beat Awesome Gem with a 106 figure. While that figure was a career high and came on the heels of a 103 in the Swaps, neither of those figures suggest he's anywhere near the top group. I also think that his efforts in the Derby and Belmont show that same thing and make you wonder if he's just this year's version of Brother Derek; good in California but not so good outside of the state.

With a number of question marks surrounding each of the leading contenders and the prospect that even if they do run their best race, none of them are world beaters, I think now is the perfect time to send a horse like GW to the Classic. No, I do not expect him to win the race. I think that at best, he's looking at third or fourth. But I think it's worth taking a shot. They've got nothing to lose in trying this. His position in the breeding world as a world class miler is set. That would not change even if he were to win the Mile. Another loss in the Classic will not hurt that but I believe that a top five showing here could only enhance his reputation and I don't believe that is an unrealistic goal. I would feel a little different about this if I thought they were passing up a chance to win the Mile by sending him to the Classic but since they already have Excellent Art there, a horse that very well could go off favored, they are in a good position to take this kind of risk.

KG, I think you're reading too much into the Beyers published. The fact of the matter is they're wrong these days; Lawyer Ron ran MUCH faster than the published numbers at Saratoga then came back to a more "normal" level at Belmont (which was adjusted UPWARDS.)

About the only thing I agree on speed figure wise is Tiago probably isn't fast enough to win unless he improves 4-5 lengths. Very likely candidate to finish 3rd or 4th.