inconvenient

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Danzig

maybe shouldn't be...but we are. we're the only super power, and other countries look to us and ask for our input--whether they agree with it or not.
also, many say we shouldn't be involved elsewhere, but any time anything erupts, or seems about to be, we are the first ones that people say should 'do something'.

But any talk of "this is right to do" is really just a side issue. The resolution passed the FR committee 27-21 and it will go to the floor only because Pelosi will have it sent. A nearly identical relolution passed 40-5 (or so ) 2-3 years ago but Boehner - Repub leader - shut it down. There is no magic to why this is going through now; it's pure politics. The U.S. has been cool to Armenia since the '99 regional protection deal Armenia signed with Russia. 4,000 or so Russian troops guard Armenia's borders with Turkey and Iran. Since the late 90's U.S. aid to Armenia has gone from about $110 mil/year to $65 mil.

The architects of this are the Russians who seek to increase their influence in the Caucuses region. The resolution itself is an ok thing but it's nothing more than Democrats undermining Bush at the behest of Russia. The Armenians are just going along for the ride.

[Danzig]

yeah, i know--it all comes down to politics. but i think bush is on the wrong side of it this time. he wants the easy way, instead of what's right in this case. it would be easier to kowtow to the turks in this regard--and of course as a non binding resolution, it really doesn't mean a whole lot. but calling something what it is shouldn't be wrong. and this certainly shouldn't have a lasting effect on our relations with the turks. that's just laughable. but then, maybe once upon a time, george the third probably thought we'd be eternal enemies.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I can tell you exactly why the Turks are slamming their spoons so hard against the top of their highchairs. They are not at all used to their sins being talked about. It's against the law to talk(in any way) negatively about TURKEY.They are not equipped to deal with being talked about.To not be able to "shut somebody up right now" is simply freaking them out.This comes with zero sanctions or penalties.It's simply free speech.The evidence will show that the Turks made Armenians march (without food or water) down towards the heat of Syria.This was away from any fighting between Turks n' Russians/Armenians in Eastern Turkey.When the rest of the World had their eyes on WW1,this is what the Turks were up to. I wouldn't be thrilled about my ethnic group doing it,but they are simply nuts to keep denying they did it.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I can tell you exactly why the Turks are slamming their spoons so hard against the top of their highchairs. They are not at all used to their sins being talked about. It's against the law to talk(in any way) negatively about TURKEY.They are not equipped to deal with being talked about.To not be able to "shut somebody up right now" is simply freaking them out.This comes with zero sanctions or penalties.It's simply free speech.The evidence will show that the Turks made Armenians march (without food or water) down towards the heat of Syria.This was away from any fighting between Turks n' Russians/Armenians in Eastern Turkey.When the rest of the World had their eyes on WW1,this is what the Turks were up to. I wouldn't be thrilled about my ethnic group doing it,but they are simply nuts to keep denying they did it.

They dont deny it. (A few bizarre groups and their politcal strongmen in the army), but they have admitted many times to the US in private that this was/is a black mark in their history.
They know what happened. The timing is what is interesting. Its the timing they really take exception to.

STS's insight is very interesting. I had not heard it mentioned from that perspective.

However, I will say Americans on the whole are ignorant of what went on. I met an Armenian girl in college and she told me all about it and I read about it and could not quite figure out why it was not mentioned. At least along with the Khmer Rouge and what they did in Cambodia after the Vietnam war. It may not have been as systematic and well documented as the holocaust, and the number of people that were slaughtered was not as great... But it was certainly a very sad moment in human history.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

They dont deny it. (A few bizarre groups and their politcal strongmen in the army), but they have admitted many times to the US in private that this was/is a black mark in their history.
They know what happened. The timing is what is interesting. Its the timing they really take exception to.

STS's insight is very interesting. I had not heard it mentioned from that perspective.

However, I will say Americans on the whole are ignorant of what went on. I met an Armenian girl in college and she told me all about it and I read about it and could not quite figure out why it was not mentioned. At least along with the Khmer Rouge and what they did in Cambodia after the Vietnam war. It may not have been as systematic and well documented as the holocaust, and the number of people that were slaughtered was not as great... But it was certainly a very sad moment in human history.

They deny it every f'n day.The same lie comes out of their mouths..

" It was the result of ethnic conflict caused by war,and just as many Turks died as Armenians."

It's a lie.They have lied for 90 years about this,and that's why this bill is going to be passed.If they admitted it,then this bill wouldn't exist.It's not Russians causing this bill.It's the arrogant TURKS who are quite frankly surprised when somebody has the nad to call them on a lie,and history will document BUSH getting in their fascist beds.There is no free speech in that country.You say anything about the founder of modern Turkey(ATATURK,) and you'll be arrested.Bush is very hit and miss on what he is offended by.This is not that far from a typical 70's era South American Dictatorship.Simply because they are ULTRA-NATIONALISTIC(instead of religious fundamentalists) doesn't mean we should let them dictate our policy decisions.It's inconvenient to disappoint them,but we shouldn't want to be anything like these people. You know,ya can't just (as a citizen) leave that country to go somewhere.I know somebody who simply can't get out of there,and they sure can't come to the U.S. Maybe if they lie and say they are just leaving to visit Germany.It's amazing how these 2 countries(Turkey/Germany) are linked up.I think it's because they are both so nationalistic(historically,) and both like to take over other countries(conquer..start an empire.)

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They deny it every f'n day.The same lie comes out of their mouths..

" It was the result of ethnic conflict caused by war,and just as many Turks died as Armenians."

It's a lie.They have lied for 90 years about this,and that's why this bill is going to be passed.If they admitted it,then this bill wouldn't exist.It's not Russians causing this bill.It's the arrogant TURKS who are quite frankly surprised when somebody has the nad to call them on a lie,and history will document BUSH getting in their fascist beds.There is no free speech in that country.You say anything about the founder of modern Turkey(ATATURK,) and you'll be arrested.Bush is very hit and miss on what he is offended by.This is not that far from a typical 70's era South American Dictatorship.Simply because they are ULTRA-NATIONALISTIC(instead of religious fundamentalists) doesn't mean we should let them dictate our policy decisions.It's inconvenient to disappoint them,but we shouldn't want to be anything like these people. You know,ya can't just (as a citizen) leave that country to go somewhere.I know somebody who simply can't get out of there,and they sure can't come to the U.S. Maybe if they lie and say they are just leaving to visit Germany.It's amazing how these 2 countries(Turkey/Germany) are linked up.I think it's because they are both so nationalistic(historically,) and both like to take over other countries(conquer..start an empire.)

Scuds they dont deny it. They deny it in public but they are not stupid. And the common man on the street of Turkey that is educated knows it also. My Uncle was a diplomat in Ankara for 10 years. He really did not like Turkey and said they are a very rough bunch, but they know that the world knows. Its for their public consumption and it works on the uneducated.

We basically do the same thing here, it just does not work nearly as well because the press is so free to operate. And the Military here knows they serve the people here. In Turkey, its not quite that clear. The military is very strong... probably the main reason they are still considered allies. This is a majority Muslim country. The Military in Turkey is the single most powerful entity that makes sure Church and State do not mix. Its an odd arrangement.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Scuds they dont deny it. They deny it in public but they are not stupid. And the common man on the street of Turkey that is educated knows it also. My Uncle was a diplomat in Ankara for 10 years. He really did not like Turkey and said they are a very rough bunch, but they know that the world knows. Its for their public consumption and it works on the uneducated.

We basically do the same thing here, it just does not work nearly as well because the press is so free to operate. And the Military here knows they serve the people here. In Turkey, its not quite that clear. The military is very strong... probably the main reason they are still considered allies. This is a majority Muslim country. The Military in Turkey is the single most powerful entity that makes sure Church and State do not mix. Its an odd arrangement.

If you had somebody rip you off ,then probably 1 thing upsets you more than the money.That would be that they are known as "good people." Only you and the guy who did you wrong know he is like this.Well,now imagine if it was murder of an ethnic group.The only justice the Armenians can get is to have these thugs known as thugs.To us,it is not that particularly important,but I can see why the Armenians need to have this happen.There couldn't be anything much worse than having your gandparents slaughtered,and then the criminals denying it,or saying "just as many Turks died." That would be sick.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsk8Bn4Ff8o

Here is the typical response by Turks to the genocide topic....Lovely....These thugs need to be kept in check,or they will slaughter other races.To say it happened 90 years ago is to ignore that these are very racist people that have been taught to value Turk blood(and Turkey Nationalism)over anything else(yes,it is more important to them than Islam.)

Originally Posted by Cardus

I hope that I have read this thread sufficiently to ask you a question, and by asking you this question, I mean, "Let's start at the beginning":

What dog do you have in this fight? This is the most passionate response I've seen about almost anything on this site. Why?

That's all I can contribute tonight, but I await your answer.

Thanks.

Cardus

I will answer for him if I might.
I think Scuds is basically good people.
He clearly does not like people involved
in terribly lopsided massacres denying
anything ever happened.

He does seem to try and champion the downtrodden
and its clear the Armenians got slaughtered.
Most people dont give a damn because it
has very little direct effect on the US.
But other people do and Scuds is one of those
people.

Cant believe I say these kind of things about
bitter people that love to make things simple (ex.
the entire south is prejudice and backwards while
California is an all-knowing omnipotent entity of
pure thought.)

And who knows. Maybe he has some Armenian
relatives.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I hope that I have read this thread sufficiently to ask you a question, and by asking you this question, I mean, "Let's start at the beginning":

What dog do you have in this fight? This is the most passionate response I've seen about almost anything on this site. Why?

That's all I can contribute tonight, but I await your answer.

Thanks.

Cardus

Well,this link that I put up should tell you why.I have seen what these TURKS write on youtube etc. about Greeks,Armenians ,Kurds,and Americans.I know there is something very,very wrong with the way these people are raised,and taught that their race(TURKS) is a superior group of conquerors of lesser races.This is why things went wrong in both Germany,and Japan.Those 2 are evidently controlled.The Turks did the same(but on a smaller "in country" way in the early part of last century,and I can certainly see them doing it again.I have a TURKISH "friend" in Turkey who can't be trusted to tell the truth.Says he has no problem signing a contract,then says "chill.".he'll sign it. Then he says "o.k. tell me what to do,and I'LL DO IT. Then a week later he says he can't sign because he is in an isolated village.Calls me selfish and impatient for asking him to sign something he was supposed to sign 10 days earlier.Trust me,that was a stall,and I knew that.He said he would sign when he got back home in Ankara.He has been back in Ankara for probably 2 weeks atleast.Now has not signed it after being back in his regular location.O.K.? See he got a little money for portions of some songs he wrote.It's only like $350,so it's not a big deal,but believe me it's not good to have somebody lie what? 5 or 6 times...lol.....There is something very wrong with this group of people...To lie that easily....I have it all in emails.If I mail him his lies,he will go into the familiar "you don't know what I'm going through here,you just get your mind stuck on one issue,and you won't let up." ..........LOL...I COULDN'T just write this,o.k. They are so far off it's hard to explain...Mind you,he is only half Turkish,and blows up if I call him "TURK"......He is half Turk(with almost all Turk people around him,but objects to being considered a TURK. I think he isn't accepted that well,because he isn't 100% TURK. Anyways,yes I know how much these people like to kick other peoples asses,and I know they can't be trusted.Not a good mix...Racism,Warlovers,and untrustworthy...Very dangerous people....bottle rocket tempers....it's like a whole country of mental patients,and that's how they are acting(the public and the leaders) over this non-binding resolution about a 90 year old genocide.Look at the link,man. That doesn't bother you? They aren't trying to be funny.They are serious.It's usually about Greeks,but now they are talking about the Armenians(you would think they would leave them alone by now) because they blame them for the resolution..........See 3 links below for bullshit artist singing.The biggest problem is he has a very unique voice.Believe me it's a voice worth a lot more than $350(particularly in a couple years,because he gets technically better each month.)He already can sing Chris Brown(an extremely popular r n'b-hip hop singer) SONGS BETTER THAN CHRIS BROWN CAN.He is talented,and that is corrupting me.Look at this actor.Doesn't look like a liar,but..oh oh oh .lol.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

To put it simpler.....I see Bush do something like IRAQ,OR THE DALAI LAMA on moral "right thing to do" type arguments.Then I see him want to overlook the immoral things that others do,and yes,to me,these Turks shouldn't be blackmailing us(that's immoral too,) and getting away with it.I know how these TURKS will keep changing the goal line every chance they can.They want us to kill these KURDS for them,or else they will invade northern IRAQ.ALWAYS THESE THUGS demand ,demand ,demand.It's almost like they can't be happy unless they have some demands they aren't getting fulfilled by the U.S...

[SCUDSBROTHER]

"Cant believe I say these kind of things about
bitter people that love to make things simple (ex.
the entire south is prejudice and backwards while
California is an all-knowing omnipotent entity of
pure thought.")

Well,I think the term I have used for the South is HEE HAW.Lets see,what state down there didn't want this fascist appeaser to get another 4 years? HUH? He is appeasing this genocidal fascist state that has state -owned press,and virtually no free speech.Giving into these blackmailing thugs.Here read it again :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsk8Bn4Ff8o

You really think they regret killing these people? As a block,the South voted for this guy......o.k.? I didn't just make it up.They're pretty predictable in their ways of voting for guys like this.Guys that will, on the one hand,piss off China( by giving awards etc. to the Dalai Lama,)and then turn right around and give in to the fascists in Turkey.Simply allow himself be blackmailed because it's a lot easier than standing up to denounce their thug ways of offing people they don't like.This hatred is still there.The TURKS,GREEKS,ARMENIANS,KURDS...The TURKS hate all 3...o.K.? THAT'S NOT 90 YEARS DEAD AT ALL. It's so very alive.Don't appease these people.Don't be this inconsistent with your moral choices.