inconvenient

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Chucksta, here is the problem your boy GEEDUBB has.He is in Iraq "because it's the right thing to do." It's for "freedom." It's been sold as a moral thing(we long ago got rid of the dictator.)We could get out,but it'd be the "wrong thing to do." Genocide has to be pointed out,or I guarantee you these same people(TURKS) will do this again(if they think they can get away with it.) They hate the KURDS,and the Greeks.This only "recognizes" that something happened.We aren't punishing them.They don't want it to be recognized by the rest of the world.They want to get away with it(without the world ever saying this officially did take place.)This guy does a lot of stuff because it's the moral thing to do,and now he wants to ignore a dog pissing on the furniture.You can't do that.You lose all credibility.We would be like the TURKS(LIARS ,DECEIVERS,OPPORTUNISTS,THUGS.) Another thing you are missing is a point I made previously...You can not satisfy these people.So,don't go down this blackmail road,because it won't end here.There is nothing wrong with simply saying this took place,and it shouldn't ever take place again.Just because he thinks they are his friends doesn't mean it's right to give them a pass(yes they have had a pass on this for 90 years,and it's never been a good time to document it.)

You sound like both of my late grandfathers; both Armenians from Turkey. One from Keyseri (where my father was born) and the other from Izmir. The last of the "survivors" are in their late 90's. That the reason for the push on this.

[Danzig]

altho this may bring discomfort to the descendants of those who perpetrated the genocide, and to those in power now who don't want to recognize that it happened, it did indeed happen--and as sent so stud said, there was a push for this as there are so few armenians left from that period in time.

it may stir up trouble, but we shouldn't hide from the truth, or be fearful of speaking out.

also, since it was 80 years ago, you could also ask why the Turks are so pissed off about a non binding resolution, and why things will 'never be the same' according to one of the top Turkish pols.

we have a history of standing up for the little guy, or taking sides with the underdog. this is another example of that. better to take a stand imo than to kowtow to thugs and their threats. and i would think that 1.5 million lives lost is certainly something to pass a resolution about.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm reluctant to get into this discussion, as I am half Armenian. But, I will say, hearing about the genocide from my great grandfather was a pretty disturbing. The genocide was a very real thing and while we should not be the world police, basically allowing the Turks to deny it, and not calling them on it is disgusting. I am not surprised.

maybe shouldn't be...but we are. we're the only super power, and other countries look to us and ask for our input--whether they agree with it or not.
also, many say we shouldn't be involved elsewhere, but any time anything erupts, or seems about to be, we are the first ones that people say should 'do something'.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Danzig

maybe shouldn't be...but we are. we're the only super power, and other countries look to us and ask for our input--whether they agree with it or not.
also, many say we shouldn't be involved elsewhere, but any time anything erupts, or seems about to be, we are the first ones that people say should 'do something'.

But any talk of "this is right to do" is really just a side issue. The resolution passed the FR committee 27-21 and it will go to the floor only because Pelosi will have it sent. A nearly identical relolution passed 40-5 (or so ) 2-3 years ago but Boehner - Repub leader - shut it down. There is no magic to why this is going through now; it's pure politics. The U.S. has been cool to Armenia since the '99 regional protection deal Armenia signed with Russia. 4,000 or so Russian troops guard Armenia's borders with Turkey and Iran. Since the late 90's U.S. aid to Armenia has gone from about $110 mil/year to $65 mil.

The architects of this are the Russians who seek to increase their influence in the Caucuses region. The resolution itself is an ok thing but it's nothing more than Democrats undermining Bush at the behest of Russia. The Armenians are just going along for the ride.

[Danzig]

yeah, i know--it all comes down to politics. but i think bush is on the wrong side of it this time. he wants the easy way, instead of what's right in this case. it would be easier to kowtow to the turks in this regard--and of course as a non binding resolution, it really doesn't mean a whole lot. but calling something what it is shouldn't be wrong. and this certainly shouldn't have a lasting effect on our relations with the turks. that's just laughable. but then, maybe once upon a time, george the third probably thought we'd be eternal enemies.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I can tell you exactly why the Turks are slamming their spoons so hard against the top of their highchairs. They are not at all used to their sins being talked about. It's against the law to talk(in any way) negatively about TURKEY.They are not equipped to deal with being talked about.To not be able to "shut somebody up right now" is simply freaking them out.This comes with zero sanctions or penalties.It's simply free speech.The evidence will show that the Turks made Armenians march (without food or water) down towards the heat of Syria.This was away from any fighting between Turks n' Russians/Armenians in Eastern Turkey.When the rest of the World had their eyes on WW1,this is what the Turks were up to. I wouldn't be thrilled about my ethnic group doing it,but they are simply nuts to keep denying they did it.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I can tell you exactly why the Turks are slamming their spoons so hard against the top of their highchairs. They are not at all used to their sins being talked about. It's against the law to talk(in any way) negatively about TURKEY.They are not equipped to deal with being talked about.To not be able to "shut somebody up right now" is simply freaking them out.This comes with zero sanctions or penalties.It's simply free speech.The evidence will show that the Turks made Armenians march (without food or water) down towards the heat of Syria.This was away from any fighting between Turks n' Russians/Armenians in Eastern Turkey.When the rest of the World had their eyes on WW1,this is what the Turks were up to. I wouldn't be thrilled about my ethnic group doing it,but they are simply nuts to keep denying they did it.

They dont deny it. (A few bizarre groups and their politcal strongmen in the army), but they have admitted many times to the US in private that this was/is a black mark in their history.
They know what happened. The timing is what is interesting. Its the timing they really take exception to.

STS's insight is very interesting. I had not heard it mentioned from that perspective.

However, I will say Americans on the whole are ignorant of what went on. I met an Armenian girl in college and she told me all about it and I read about it and could not quite figure out why it was not mentioned. At least along with the Khmer Rouge and what they did in Cambodia after the Vietnam war. It may not have been as systematic and well documented as the holocaust, and the number of people that were slaughtered was not as great... But it was certainly a very sad moment in human history.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsk8Bn4Ff8o

Here is the typical response by Turks to the genocide topic....Lovely....These thugs need to be kept in check,or they will slaughter other races.To say it happened 90 years ago is to ignore that these are very racist people that have been taught to value Turk blood(and Turkey Nationalism)over anything else(yes,it is more important to them than Islam.)