Bush's first veto

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

See,Stud...we do agree about some things! There's HOPE for us all yet.

lol... as Lewis Black said about his vote in the PResidential race, "WTF was I supposed to do when I had to choose between two bowls of sh.t?!?"

Nancy Reagan changed her tune after what her husband went through. I bet if someone in the Bush family got unfortunate...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Nancy Reagan changed her tune after what her husband went through. I bet if someone in the Bush family got unfortunate...

Interesting "take" on this issue, Pgardn.
Since the embryos in question are going to be dicarded anyway, seems to me that they could serve a more useful purpose than becoming "medical waste".

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Interesting "take" on this issue, Pgardn.
Since the embryos in question are going to be dicarded anyway, seems to me that they could serve a more useful purpose than becoming "medical waste".

I certainly agree...it's always a matter of who's ox gets gored! Cheney has a g-ay daughter and that alters his view a bit. The danger of course is that they run out of available stem cells and abortion for profit becomes a reality...obviously, I have problems with that as I suspect many do, but I see no reason there can't be safeguards installed from the beginning to prevent that!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I certainly agree...it's always a matter of who's ox gets gored! Cheney has a g-ay daughter and that alters his view a bit. The danger of course is that they run out of available stem cells and abortion for profit becomes a reality...obviously, I have problems with that as I suspect many do, but I see no reason there can't be safeguards installed from the beginning to prevent that!

Somerfrost,
To my knowledge, these embryos don't come into existance through abortion.
They are harvested from the female donor and fertilized invitro.
Those that successfully come to term are the "snowflake" babies that surrounded Bush in his photo op.
However, since there are far more embroyos created than are implanted, the surplus are stored in liquid nitrogen until they are no longer viable.
We can start seperate threads on abortion and g-ay rights. These topics are not germain to the stem cell issue.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Somerfrost,
To my knowledge, these embryos don't come into existance through abortion.
They are harvested from the female donor and fertilized invitro.
Those that successfully come to term are the "snowflake" babies that surrounded Bush in his photo op.
However, since there are far more embroyos created than are implanted, the surplus are stored in liquid nitrogen until they are no longer viable.
We can start seperate threads on abortion and g-ay rights. These topics are not germain to the stem cell issue.

I only mentioned g-ay rights in the context that initially arose from Pgardn's post...folks with personal involvements tend to alter their point of view whether it be stem cell, g-ay rights, or the fact that an Arab family is moving in next door! Abortion is germain to this issue as it remains the one significant danger. I support this research and recognize the tremendous benefit that it can produce to millions of people, my only issue is safeguards for the future when hopefully scientists have developed successful treatments for those millions requiring a huge supply of stem cells! I'll repeat myself...there is no reason this can't be done! There is no need to debate the morality of abortion here, that takes my concerns out of context!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I only mentioned g-ay rights in the context that initially arose from Pgardn's post...folks with personal involvements tend to alter their point of view whether it be stem cell, g-ay rights, or the fact that an Arab family is moving in next door! Abortion is germain to this issue as it remains the one significant danger. I support this research and recognize the tremendous benefit that it can produce to millions of people, my only issue is safeguards for the future when hopefully scientists have developed successful treatments for those millions requiring a huge supply of stem cells! I'll repeat myself...there is no reason this can't be done! There is no need to debate the morality of abortion here, that takes my concerns out of context!

Somerfrost,
Thanks for the clarification.
I agree with much of your position.
Abortion is not the source of embryonic stem cells.
As far as needing a "huge supply of stem cells", that really isn't the case.
Of the 78 cell lines presently allowed, none of the colonies came from aborted fetuses. The issue is the current limitation of scientific investigation to those existing cell lines. Since stem cells are undifferentiated (therein their value), they can be replicated invitro to supply research. A "huge supply" is not necessary.
I agree that allowing more cell lines to be used for investigation should be done. It must be done.
My point is that discarding embryos is a complete waste, though it does serve a "moral" and political agenda.