Why win and your in sucks...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Isn't that exactly why Purim is a perfect horse for a WAYI kind of thing? Ran down a pretty solid bunch of turf milers in a GI race three weeks out from the BC, yet he shouldn't be in? He basically fits your "winners of higher graded, more contentious races" qualification to a tee.

Miesque's Approval didn't look too deserving last year. That ended up well.

And he is a perfect example of how winning one race that is designated as a "special race" suddenly becomes more important that the rest of the years accomplishments...

Maybe Purim isn't the ideal example but his win in this race is now much more important than the horse who won the Shoemaker, Firecracker, Makers Mark or any other important mile race. What if the full compliment of Euros come and a couple of Discreet cat or Hard Spun types enter in the turf mile. Then we are down to 4 or 5 American turf milers. If you get 2 longshot WAYI winners than you are down to possibly 2 or 3 spots open. That is good? Longshots getting preferential treatment into our premier races is not a good idea in my mind...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And he is a perfect example of how winning one race that is designated as a "special race" suddenly becomes more important that the rest of the years accomplishments...

Maybe Purim isn't the ideal example but his win in this race is now much more important than the horse who won the Shoemaker, Firecracker, Makers Mark or any other important mile race. What if the full compliment of Euros come and a couple of Discreet cat or Hard Spun types enter in the turf mile. Then we are down to 4 or 5 American turf milers. If you get 2 longshot WAYI winners than you are down to possibly 2 or 3 spots open. That is good? Longshots getting preferential treatment into our premier races is not a good idea in my mind...

Well maybe we look at the Shadwell Mile differently. It didn't take a "WAYI" designation for me to think that it's one of the most important grass mile races in America. Regardless of a gimmicky marketing idea, the Shadwell Mile winner should be a part of the BC Mile field no matter what.

While I understand your concern about an extremely deserving horse being left out, your doomsday scenario is going to need a whole lot of wacky entrants for Purim to actually knock a rock-solid better horse out of the field. So what if he was 20-1 in that race? Look at his PPs, TGs, etc. He had some darkened form over his last few, but his fastest and best races were exactly on par with the favorites in that field the other day.

Really, are you that worried that this year's version of Sleeping Indian is going to get left out of the field because Purim ran his eyeballs out a few times this year, and most importantly on Saturday? I'm willing to bet that once entries are drawn for the mile, it won't be Purim who will seem the most questionable of the lot.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well maybe we look at the Shadwell Mile differently. It didn't take a "WAYI" designation for me to think that it's one of the most important grass mile races in America. Regardless of a gimmicky marketing idea, the Shadwell Mile winner should be a part of the BC Mile field no matter what.

While I understand your concern about an extremely deserving horse being left out, your doomsday scenario is going to need a whole lot of wacky entrants for Purim to actually knock a rock-solid better horse out of the field. So what if he was 20-1 in that race? Look at his PPs, TGs, etc. He had some darkened form over his last few, but his fastest and best races were exactly on par with the favorites in that field the other day.

Really, are you that worried that this year's version of Sleeping Indian is going to get left out of the field because Purim ran his eyeballs out a few times this year, and most importantly on Saturday? I'm willing to bet that once entries are drawn for the mile, it won't be Purim who will seem the most questionable of the lot.

Brian the problem is that there are already 4 qualifiers (WAYI) for the turf mile. What if (when?) they expand the program to 6 or 7 races and you get a couple of bombs winning under adverse weather conditions or other outside factors? Then there may be zero spots open. To me it is a bad idea using gimmicks to award spots in your best races which will serve to further deteroriate our non-Breeders Cup stakes. The difference between the NCAA tourney (which was the idea behind it) and this is that the longshot teams that win the conference tourneys rarely knock out teams with a chance to actually win it all because there are 65 spots where here there are less than 7 in the turf races. The Phoenix winner may be a better example.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Brian the problem is that there are already 4 qualifiers (WAYI) for the turf mile. What if (when?) they expand the program to 6 or 7 races and you get a couple of bombs winning under adverse weather conditions or other outside factors? Then there may be zero spots open. To me it is a bad idea using gimmicks to award spots in your best races which will serve to further deteroriate our non-Breeders Cup stakes. The difference between the NCAA tourney (which was the idea behind it) and this is that the longshot teams that win the conference tourneys rarely knock out teams with a chance to actually win it all because there are 65 spots where here there are less than 7 in the turf races. The Phoenix winner may be a better example.

Ok, that makes it a bit different. If the idea is mainly that you're against WAYI on principle, that's a different story. For a horse like Off Duty, that raises a valid and important point. I guess I just think you used the wrong example of why WAYI sucks. I think it's a stupid idea, because the winner of almost all of these races will generally get into the BC field of the corresponding race on their own merits.

I just think that to try to imply that Purim is only deserving of being in the BC Mile because of WAYI, and not because of the fact that he ran a huge race in a huge GI three weeks out from the BC is a bit unfair given that had Purim run well a few starts before, and gone off at 9/2, nobody would even be having this conversation.

I mean, if Purim shouldn't get in (though I know you said that maybe you chose the wrong race to object to), then Discreet Cat should be left out of any oversubscribed field, right? No stakes wins this year. No wins at all this year. You mentioned him in your post two back. If he is allowed in any BC race just based on his form from last year, I think we should be more than capable of finding reasons for a Grade I winner in October to be allowed into the BC Mile, ya know?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Ok, that makes it a bit different. If the idea is mainly that you're against WAYI on principle, that's a different story. For a horse like Off Duty, that raises a valid and important point. I guess I just think you used the wrong example of why WAYI sucks. I think it's a stupid idea, because the winner of almost all of these races will generally get into the BC field of the corresponding race on their own merits.

I just think that to try to imply that Purim is only deserving of being in the BC Mile because of WAYI, and not because of the fact that he ran a huge race in a huge GI three weeks out from the BC is a bit unfair given that had Purim run well a few starts before, and gone off at 9/2, nobody would even be having this conversation.

I mean, if Purim shouldn't get in (though I know you said that maybe you chose the wrong race to object to), then Discreet Cat should be left out of any oversubscribed field, right? No stakes wins this year. No wins at all this year. You mentioned him in your post two back. If he is allowed in any BC race just based on his form from last year, I think we should be more than capable of finding reasons for a Grade I winner in October to be allowed into the BC Mile, ya know?

I just see troubling times ahead in the Breeders Cupazitation of the racing world. If the whole premise was to get the best fields together throughout the year as a lead up to the BC I could see the value in it. But to randomly just award spots in hopes of creating "excitement" of "dark horses" is stupid.

[SentToStud]

Purim deserves to be in as much as any other G 1 mile turf winner does. What is a crime is that the sprint they ran at Keeneland is one of the magic races. I believe more BC Sprint winners have prepped at Philly Park than Keeneland. Whichever way, guys with initials for first names and roman numerals for last names are going to do whatever benefits themselves.